16 ms·

Google Fi bricked my iPhone 11 Pro Max (2020)

177 points by cft 5y ago

egberts1 5y ago
As mushyhammer have said in here: “blame is actually: - Apple’s for blindly allowing this behavior, - Best Buy’s for not advertising it, - T-Mobile’s for allowing this through MNVO’s, and - Google’s for not knowing that this happens and not allowing unlocks.”
obilgic 5y ago
I had such a terrible experience with Google Fi for 3 months, I never thought I would be this happy switching back to T-Mobile.
Someone1234 5y ago
They purchased a T-Mobile locked iPhone from Best Buy. Best Buy don't sell new unlocked iPhones (only used store with reviews saying they're sometimes locked). They then activated the phone on a T-Mobile MVNO which allowed the phone to work. They had an unrelated issue with Google Fi (terms of service violation), purchased a foreign SIM card, found out they had purchased a locked iPhone and then contacted Google Fi support accusing them of causing it. Google Fi's support rightfully said that they don't sell locked phones (least of all iPhones), and that they couldn't unlock a T-Mobile locked phone. The writer accuses them of acting illegally. People seem to be under the mistaken impression that cellphone operators just have this red "unlock" button, whereas the reality is that T-Mobile is the only one capable of generating an unlock.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  I just went to Best Buy's website. There's unlocked phones. It's typically the carrier branch stores that don't sell unlocked devices, though they often do in my experience (you'll get the phone cheaper somewhere else). If you read carefully, the carrier selection on the website is really just for carrier compatibility; you are offered the option of paying the entire price upfront. The shocker to me here is you can pay the entire up front cost and have your phone remotely disabled.
  - Someone1234 5y ago
    Those are used phones you're looking at. If you checked the reviews you will see that "not really unlocked" is a common complaint on top. If you go look at their new inventory even if you "activate today" you still need to select a carrier.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Nope, brand new. You can pay entire sticker price up front and get them unlocked.
- corndoge 5y ago
  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-preowned-iphone-x-with-256gb-memory-cell-phone-unlocked-space-gray/6394667.p?skuId=6394667 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-preowned-iphone-x-with-25... What's this? The authors story sounds plausible and they're right that iPhones on Fi use T-Mobile. And I say this as a very long term, happy Fi customer myself.
  - Someone1234 5y ago
    That is a used iPhone with multiple reviews saying it was locked when it arrived e.g.: > Phone was Locked > I bought this phone for my son so that he can reach me while he's at school. The product description for this phone said "unlocked" which was a major reason I chose it. It is a beautiful phone and like new. However, I quickly realized that it was an AT&T phone meaning it is locked. That was disappointing because I had planned on using Verizon. I didn't want to go through the trouble of returning it and waiting for a different phone, so I decided to keep it and get an AT&T plan. And: > Locked preowned phone. Garbage > Zero stars. Bought a preowned Iphone X that was still locked from previous carrier. Could not be hooked up to new carrier. Terrible customer service, no resolution of our problem. Spent 2 hours on the phone with best buy, apple, and sprint. Best Buy sold us junk. DO NOT BUY PREOWNED FROM HERE. And: > Unusable phone (and arrived late) > Not only did the phone arrive 3 days late, it arrived locked and unusable. Was not able to activate with tmobile as they said the phone was not in their system. Best Buy don't sell unlocked new iPhones, never have. And all of their used inventory has similar reviews.
    - cft 5y ago
      Here's a brand new one https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-iphone-11-with-64gb-memory-cell-phone-unlocked-purple/6223312.p?skuId=6223312 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-iphone-11-with-64gb-memor...
      - Someone1234 5y ago
        The author purchased a 12 Max, where is that to buy unlocked? All you've found is an out-of-stock older model.
- cft 5y ago
  They sell plenty of unlocked iphones https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&browsedCategory=pcmcat1542305802014&id=pcat17071&iht=n&ks=960&list=y&qp=nocontractunlocked_facet%3DNo%20Contract%2FUnlocked~Unlocked&sc=Global&sp=-currentprice%20skuidsaas&st=pcmcat1542305802014_categoryid%24pcmcat311200050005&type=page&usc=All%20Categories https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-...
- limeblack 5y ago
  As a Best Buy part time employee the correct answer is that we don’t sell the newest iPhone models unlocked in stores. Refurbished models are the only iPhones we sell unlocked in our store. Online that’s is a different matter entirely and yes there are some newer models we sell unlocked online but it’s minimal because of fraud.
R0b0t1 5y ago
Did he try to do anything in a small claims court? Get a consultation with a lawyer? This is such a slam dunk it seems infinitely worth pursuing. Obviously yes you'd rather not, but I never see updates on if the issue gets solved.
- tedivm 5y ago
  If you sue google they'll close your entire google account, which in turn can cause a lot of issues for a lot of people. I personally refuse to use gmail in part because of this- if you have a problem with one google service you risk losing access to all of them.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    This is generally news to the hyper-libertarian HN clientele but I am pretty sure enforcing your rights as a consumer isn't supposed to open you up to retaliation in the US.
    - WinterMount223 5y ago
      It’s not unusual. They decide that they don’t want to do business with you anymore. It can be included in their TOS that pre-arbitration is mandatory. By you going directly to civil courts you are breaching their TOS which is a reason for termination.
      - indymike 5y ago
        > By you going directly to civil courts you are breaching their TOS which is a reason for termination That's a novel theory. So if I sue the power company because a cherry picker rear-ended my 1978 land yacht they can just shut me off in -20 winter weather because I sued them?
        WinterMount223 5y ago
        I didn’t say that. In your example, you are a consumer of a public service. In the Google case you are a user of a private service.
dataflow 5y ago
> I learned that Google Fi exclusively uses the T-Mobile network for iPhone customers, and activating a Google Fi SIM with an iPhone causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile). Wow, carriers can just remotely lock an unlocked phone? How does this even work? Is this some kind of command that the SIM card sends the phone that the phone recognizes?
- bb88 5y ago
  I would expect this to be the case. If they can remotely unlock it, they should be able to lock it as well.
  - dataflow 5y ago
    It really depends on what you mean by "should be able". If you mean "I would expect it to be physically possible to implement something like this", then obviously. If you mean "I think manufacturers should design phones in a manner that allows this"... that one is not so obvious to me.
    - bb88 5y ago
      They're cell phone carriers. They're going to want as much control as possible regardless of how many engineers and customers whine about it.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
      I wonder if the obvious solution would be a warranty return (if bought in a country/state with reasonable customer protection laws).
- mortenjorck 5y ago
  Beyond Google Fi and T-Mobile, this story has made me suddenly much more apprehensive about picking up SIM cards from some local MVNO when traveling. What’s to stop a local operator from locking my phone and leaving an unpleasant surprise waiting when I get home? And now I also have to wonder: do eSIMs have the same vulnerability to bad-actor carriers? Is this a risk with any of the companies Airalo has partnered with?
tedivm 5y ago
Google Fi (originally Project Fi) was amazing when it first came out, but at some point they switched to contracted support with no ability to resolve issues (it's not even the support people's fault, as they literally don't have the power to do anything). For awhile Google people used to hang out in the Google Fi subreddit but they seem to have mostly moved on to other projects or companies. Besides locking phones like this example, their insurance has turned into a flat out scam- they either lose the phone completely, claim that the ID doesn't match the one in their system, or tell people there are no replacements available so they have to pay a fee for an "upgrade". Between this and the GCP price increases today is a pretty solid reminder that relying on any Google service is likely a mistake.
- GiorgioG 5y ago
  Google is turning into a complete sh*tshow across seemingly all product lines. Aside from Ads (I mean Search) I can't think of anything that hasn't fallen into disrepair or been EOL'd.
  - dangrossman 5y ago
    Ads are just as bad, and Search is little more than Ads these days. They've outsourced Google Ads "account strategists" to contractors abroad who hound Google's advertisers by any and all contact methods they can find -- not those you've given Google -- to force you onto "account review" phone calls in which they talk you through ways to spend more on Google Ads. Then those ads get reviewed by people that don't have the time or knowledge to apply Google's ad policies properly, so they're constantly deactivating years-old ads for vague and very wrong reasons, until you resubmit the same ad and it's approved again, at least until the next random review. Google has no core competency any more.
    - tmp_anon_22 5y ago
      Our CTO had to get involved when some GCP SDR wouldn't stop hounding several ICs in our engineering org. We're an exclusively AWS shop and they didn't seem to be targeting decision makers. Multiple please-do-not-contact emails was not enough for them to stop. It was weird because you'd think they'd at least target decision makers based on LinkedIn titles.
mig39 5y ago
This happened to me with a nameless Canadian carrier. I bought an iPhone, unlocked, from Apple. It worked great with many SIMs in different countries. At some point, the screen broke on the phone, and Apple did an "AppleCare express replacement" where they sent me a replacement phone and I sent my broken one back. The next SIM I put in the phone locked the phone to that carrier. It took like 5 minutes with Apple support to have Apple unlock the phone. So perhaps that's a route the author could take?
- bombcar 5y ago
  This is the correct answer - Apple can unlock and may even do so - and if not there are darker methods of doing the unlocks. Not sure I wouldn’t try it for a $1,100 brick …
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Apple will unlock it if it’s an obvious mistake like this case - seems like the replacement phone’s activation policy wasn’t set to what the original phone had. However in the OP’s case it won’t help - this isn’t a bug, it’s Best Buy scamming customers by selling them locked phones and passing them off as unlocked. Apple will just tell you to contact Best Buy.
- gnabgib 5y ago
  I hope this was before December 2017[0], this behaviour hasn't been legal in Canada for half a decade. [0]: https://www.canada.ca/en/radio-television-telecommunications/news/2017/06/crtc_puts_an_endtolockedcellphonesandunlockingfees.html https://www.canada.ca/en/radio-television-telecommunications...
whoomp12342 5y ago
why would you use an iphone with google? asking for trouble...
benguild 5y ago
This is from 2020.
cft 5y ago
OP here. I came across this article while researching what to do: evacuated to Spain from Ukraine just before the war, with Covid and... Google Fi suddenly disconnected my phone! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678249
phendrenad2 5y ago
> causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile I'd check the fine-print on your Google contract. It's probably spelled out in there. Say what you will about Google, their legal team usually covers all the bases.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  Neither Google nor T-Mobile locked the phone. _Apple_ programmed it to lock _itself_ to the first carrier with which it was used.
  - elmerfud 5y ago
    This is 100% the correct answer! The user can also log into his Apple account and unlock the phone. The reason T-Mobile customer service won't do it is because without a service plan they can't verify ownership.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      Are you confusing the Find My iPhone feature or Activation Lock? None of these depend on the SIM besides a SIM change triggering a re-check of the activation lock status (it’ll just ask you for your Apple ID credentials). Carrier lock is not something the user has easy visibility on (until recently it wasn’t even possible to tell which carrier a phone was locked to without trying them all) and definitely no control over.
mc_woods 5y ago
If what he says is true, then legally, the issue is with Google. It is Google he had the contract with. The contract allowed Google to terminate his data service, which they did. However, it is Google to which he pays his money and with which the contract exists. The fact that under the hood they use T-Mobile, doesn't matter. I was tempted to switch, but now. No. Staying far and wide away. Not for the locking, but the terrible customer support.
muh_gradle 5y ago
5 years ago I used Google Fi and it was just awful. I bought a Nexus 5x on a Google Fi deal. Fi was super unreliable, customer service was dumpster fire garbage, and multiple hardware issues with the Nexus 5x and the sim card for whatever reason. There were even recalls and class action lawsuits with the 5x and the 6p that I missed out on. Not at all surprised that Google Fi is still terrible.
- kyleee 5y ago
  the 6p was a great phone though and at the time the ease of use with international travel was a real treat
  - muh_gradle 5y ago
    I didn't own one. I ended up choosing the budget option. But if it was known for being bricked because of the boot software like multiple Nexus 5x that I owned, then I am skeptical.
null0pointer 5y ago
> it looks like you’ve been predominantly using Fi abroad over the past 3 months I used my Fi SIM and international roaming continuously outside the US for 13 months over 2020/21 and never received a message like this or had my service cut. Makes me wonder if I just slipped through the cracks in their detection or something.
- voso 5y ago
  I just got an email last month booting me off after 22 months continuously abroad with no problems. This coincided with a lot of other people complaining online that they also just got cut. They definitely don't have any "detection" for you to slip through, they just check and enforce this manually occasionally.
rotanibmocy2 5y ago
limeblack 5y ago
As a disclaimer(I work at Best Buy and) we don’t sell phones unlocked unless they are refurbished which tend to be much older models so something does seem a miss slightly.
more_corn 5y ago
That’s pretty messed up. Sometimes local phone shops can unlock your phone for you.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Pretty much impossible with Apple unless they know someone crooked within Apple or the locking carrier. It’s not like modem locks where calculating an NCK code is sufficient - here the phone will regularly check in with Apple and the response tells it whether the SIM is allowed. It’s enforced at the OS level, and ironically, the modem itself is never locked.
bschwindHN 5y ago
For those who live outside the states but go to visit every once in awhile, what do you do for sim cards? I live in Japan and currently I switch to a google fi sim card when I visit, but it's far from ideal.
- timcederman 5y ago
  eSIMs are super easy - I was able to get a T-mobile eSIM online.
- nikdoof 5y ago
  I used Airalo, no hassle eSIM setup and roams onto AT&T and T-Mobile.
elmerfud 5y ago
I think there's more to the story than what's being said. It seems the customer is having trouble and either Google or T-Mobile should be better about handling the issue but I don't think we're receiving the entire story. I have used T-Mobile exclusively for many years now I have used it when they were being resold by harbor mobile. I'm very happy and satisfied with their service but I have moved both my sim and have placed other Sims from other carriers into my phone and I have never once received a message that my phone has been locked to T-Mobile as a carrier. Edit: so I had given this some more thought and I don't believe that this is Google or T-Mobile that's put the carrier lock on his phone it's something that Apple allows you to do. It's something that users of iPhone devices can enable or disable in their Apple account. Because I've actually gotten iPhones from family members who are tech savvy who verify that it's an unlocked phone but it would not accept my SIM card saying that it was locked to a carrier. What they needed to do to fix it was log into their Apple account and release the carrier lock that allowed the phone to take a new sim. So this is really Apple anti-theft protection that he's got going on. T-Mobile was one of the first bring your own device companies where they separated service plans from devices payment plans. I hope he gets his problem fixed and updates his medium post to indicate that this really isn't a Google fi or a T-Mobile issue.
cschmid 5y ago
No carrier should be able to brick a phone without it being locked to the network. I did some research online, and it seems that the culprit here is actually Best Buy (and Apple) for selling phones as unlocked although they actually aren't: Apple sells iPhones to third parties under a 'US Reseller Flex Policy' [1], which means that they are automatically locked to the first carrier they are activated on. Nothing on the Best Buy website gives me any indication of this happening. If this is really true, it's deceptive advertisement. I'm not a lawyer, but this looks illegal. [1]: https://swappa.com/faq/answer/us-reseller-flex-policy https://swappa.com/faq/answer/us-reseller-flex-policy
- frogperson 5y ago
  Try to buy a phone from best buy and not have them set it up for you. It's impossible, they will refuse to sell you the phone.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    They charge extra if you don’t activate the phone at the store.
    - throwawayninja 5y ago
      Few people will argue that freedom is free, shoulder the cost and enjoy liberty. It is absolutely a crummy business tactic however, I find myself spending huge amounts of time to buy directly from source instead of retailers / amazon / et al. The high-quality magnetic USB cables I originally discovered through amazon got pulled and I discovered ordering from their site directly was more painless than amazon.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mrjin 5y ago
  If this was the case, then it is actually Apple to blame. Hard to believe there was such incessive practices. Under such scheme, the operator the device was locked(you will never know which as myself have multiple services and sometimes switch SIMs between devices, I assume I'm not alone) to might completely have no idea what was happening and I don't see a way that they can help the user easily.
exabrial 5y ago
Google bricked by LG v35. They had absolutely no remorse and support told me there was nothing they would do. (Notice I used the word would, because they absolutely could do something but that would interfere with $).
- kyrra 5y ago
  Mind expanding on how they bricked it?
theposey 5y ago
This isn't bricked at all. They suspended the cellular service and it's carrier locked. Needs a re-title, pretty clickbaity.
- TillE 5y ago
  Word usage changes, but it's super frustrating when a very specific term gets stretched and stretched until it barely means anything anymore. Bricked mean it's literally as useful as a brick - maybe it's recoverable via a JTAG interface or something similarly obscure, but it's otherwise dead. It doesn't mean "temporarily disabled until I make enough annoying phone calls".
  - 3np 5y ago
    Breaking: "Bricked" bricked
- mrjin 5y ago
  Pretty much bricked for now for the author as he is oversea and there is no (easy) way to use it (at least for now).
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Keep in mind that unlike legacy modem-level carrier locks that merely disable the modem, Apple’s implementation won’t even allow you to proceed past the setup screen without satisfying the SIM lock system first. The phone is literally a brick without it.
olliej 5y ago
Wow. Especially galling given Apple's activation lock already exists and is more effective.
gusmd 5y ago
> I learned that Google Fi exclusively uses the T-Mobile network for iPhone customers, and activating a Google Fi SIM with an iPhone causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile). This happened to me with an unlocked iPhone, bought at Best Buy, that I activated with a T-Mobile SIM card as well. Tried Apple support first, Apple couldn't care less. In the end T-Mobile themselves unlocked it after 2 full months of calling them almost daily and escalating, reaching out on social media, etc. This has nothing to do with Google Fi, and, if anything, I blame this on Apple for such a stupid fucking design that lets carriers unilaterally lock a brand new phone with no recourse.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  At the very least Apple should’ve had big visible warnings displayed right on the boot screen for locked devices so that scummy carriers can’t “accidentally” sell locked phones as unlocked to unsuspecting customers. But then again it took them ages to even introduce a settings menu to be able to tell which carrier a given phone was locked to; previously there was no way to know without bruteforcing with all the SIMs and Apple Support explicitly refused to tell you. Apple may look like the good guys on the outside but they’re absolutely in bed with the carriers.
jbverschoor 5y ago
Avoid google. Noted
kbuck 5y ago
This is due to buying the phone from Best Buy. Best Buy's new Apple phones (even if claimed to be "unlocked") are configured to automatically carrier lock to the first SIM inserted. Fi's primary network is T-Mobile, so they lock to T-Mobile. See the many complaints in these search results: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=best+buy+lock+to+first+SIM&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=best+buy+lock+to+first+SIM&...
compsciphd 5y ago
the solution would be to find someone with a t-mobile sim, borrow the sim/lend them the phone and get the phone unlocked. "Hey, I just bought a used iphone that is locked to t-mobile, which is normally fine, but I'm about to go overseas and need to use it with a local sim card, can you unlock it for me" I've done this multiple times (spread out by years so not abusing anything).
MarkusWandel 5y ago
How can this even be a thing? My simplistic understanding is that if the phone is locked to a given carrier (down in the baseband part of it) sending a particular magic string of digits to it (the baseband) will clear that flag and it will henceforth be unlocked. Permanently. Is there really a corresponding re-lock operation? In Canada at least, we went through three stages. 1. Buy locked second-hand phone, send $20 to shady operator somewhere to get unlock code, unlock. 2. Buy locked second-hand phone, call up the carrier it is locked to and demand the unlock code, which (after the law changed) they had to legally give you free of charge[1], enter digits, unlock. 3. No more unlocked phones since carrier locking is now illegal. Doesn't that mean that in Canada, reaching down and "re-locking" a phone is also illegal? And since we're generally a bit behind here compared to the USA, how can such a problem even exist any more? Note[1]: My mom loves her landline phones and refuses to use a smartphone. So she has one of those cellular-to-phone-jack gateways. I procured a spare replacement via classified ads. It was locked. Called the carrier, got the digits. Entered them via DTMF keypad on an old fashioned phone. I could hardly believe this would work, but it did! The thing unlocked and henceforth worked with any SIM.

177 points by cft 5y ago

As mushyhammer have said in here: “blame is actually: - Apple’s for blindly allowing this behavior, - Best Buy’s for not advertising it, - T-Mobile’s for allowing this through MNVO’s, and - Google’s for not knowing that this happens and not allowing unlocks.”

obilgic 5y ago

I had such a terrible experience with Google Fi for 3 months, I never thought I would be this happy switching back to T-Mobile.

Someone1234 5y ago

They purchased a T-Mobile locked iPhone from Best Buy. Best Buy don't sell new unlocked iPhones (only used store with reviews saying they're sometimes locked). They then activated the phone on a T-Mobile MVNO which allowed the phone to work. They had an unrelated issue with Google Fi (terms of service violation), purchased a foreign SIM card, found out they had purchased a locked iPhone and then contacted Google Fi support accusing them of causing it. Google Fi's support rightfully said that they don't sell locked phones (least of all iPhones), and that they couldn't unlock a T-Mobile locked phone. The writer accuses them of acting illegally. People seem to be under the mistaken impression that cellphone operators just have this red "unlock" button, whereas the reality is that T-Mobile is the only one capable of generating an unlock.

R0b0t1 5y ago
I just went to Best Buy's website. There's unlocked phones. It's typically the carrier branch stores that don't sell unlocked devices, though they often do in my experience (you'll get the phone cheaper somewhere else). If you read carefully, the carrier selection on the website is really just for carrier compatibility; you are offered the option of paying the entire price upfront. The shocker to me here is you can pay the entire up front cost and have your phone remotely disabled.
- Someone1234 5y ago
  Those are used phones you're looking at. If you checked the reviews you will see that "not really unlocked" is a common complaint on top. If you go look at their new inventory even if you "activate today" you still need to select a carrier.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Nope, brand new. You can pay entire sticker price up front and get them unlocked.
corndoge 5y ago
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-preowned-iphone-x-with-256gb-memory-cell-phone-unlocked-space-gray/6394667.p?skuId=6394667 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-preowned-iphone-x-with-25... What's this? The authors story sounds plausible and they're right that iPhones on Fi use T-Mobile. And I say this as a very long term, happy Fi customer myself.
- Someone1234 5y ago
  That is a used iPhone with multiple reviews saying it was locked when it arrived e.g.: > Phone was Locked > I bought this phone for my son so that he can reach me while he's at school. The product description for this phone said "unlocked" which was a major reason I chose it. It is a beautiful phone and like new. However, I quickly realized that it was an AT&T phone meaning it is locked. That was disappointing because I had planned on using Verizon. I didn't want to go through the trouble of returning it and waiting for a different phone, so I decided to keep it and get an AT&T plan. And: > Locked preowned phone. Garbage > Zero stars. Bought a preowned Iphone X that was still locked from previous carrier. Could not be hooked up to new carrier. Terrible customer service, no resolution of our problem. Spent 2 hours on the phone with best buy, apple, and sprint. Best Buy sold us junk. DO NOT BUY PREOWNED FROM HERE. And: > Unusable phone (and arrived late) > Not only did the phone arrive 3 days late, it arrived locked and unusable. Was not able to activate with tmobile as they said the phone was not in their system. Best Buy don't sell unlocked new iPhones, never have. And all of their used inventory has similar reviews.
  - cft 5y ago
    Here's a brand new one https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-iphone-11-with-64gb-memory-cell-phone-unlocked-purple/6223312.p?skuId=6223312 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-iphone-11-with-64gb-memor...
    - Someone1234 5y ago
      The author purchased a 12 Max, where is that to buy unlocked? All you've found is an out-of-stock older model.
cft 5y ago
They sell plenty of unlocked iphones https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&browsedCategory=pcmcat1542305802014&id=pcat17071&iht=n&ks=960&list=y&qp=nocontractunlocked_facet%3DNo%20Contract%2FUnlocked~Unlocked&sc=Global&sp=-currentprice%20skuidsaas&st=pcmcat1542305802014_categoryid%24pcmcat311200050005&type=page&usc=All%20Categories https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-...
limeblack 5y ago
As a Best Buy part time employee the correct answer is that we don’t sell the newest iPhone models unlocked in stores. Refurbished models are the only iPhones we sell unlocked in our store. Online that’s is a different matter entirely and yes there are some newer models we sell unlocked online but it’s minimal because of fraud.

R0b0t1 5y ago

Did he try to do anything in a small claims court? Get a consultation with a lawyer? This is such a slam dunk it seems infinitely worth pursuing. Obviously yes you'd rather not, but I never see updates on if the issue gets solved.

tedivm 5y ago
If you sue google they'll close your entire google account, which in turn can cause a lot of issues for a lot of people. I personally refuse to use gmail in part because of this- if you have a problem with one google service you risk losing access to all of them.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  This is generally news to the hyper-libertarian HN clientele but I am pretty sure enforcing your rights as a consumer isn't supposed to open you up to retaliation in the US.
  - WinterMount223 5y ago
    It’s not unusual. They decide that they don’t want to do business with you anymore. It can be included in their TOS that pre-arbitration is mandatory. By you going directly to civil courts you are breaching their TOS which is a reason for termination.
    - indymike 5y ago
      > By you going directly to civil courts you are breaching their TOS which is a reason for termination That's a novel theory. So if I sue the power company because a cherry picker rear-ended my 1978 land yacht they can just shut me off in -20 winter weather because I sued them?
      - WinterMount223 5y ago
        I didn’t say that. In your example, you are a consumer of a public service. In the Google case you are a user of a private service.

dataflow 5y ago

bb88 5y ago
I would expect this to be the case. If they can remotely unlock it, they should be able to lock it as well.
- dataflow 5y ago
  It really depends on what you mean by "should be able". If you mean "I would expect it to be physically possible to implement something like this", then obviously. If you mean "I think manufacturers should design phones in a manner that allows this"... that one is not so obvious to me.
  - bb88 5y ago
    They're cell phone carriers. They're going to want as much control as possible regardless of how many engineers and customers whine about it.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    I wonder if the obvious solution would be a warranty return (if bought in a country/state with reasonable customer protection laws).
mortenjorck 5y ago
Beyond Google Fi and T-Mobile, this story has made me suddenly much more apprehensive about picking up SIM cards from some local MVNO when traveling. What’s to stop a local operator from locking my phone and leaving an unpleasant surprise waiting when I get home? And now I also have to wonder: do eSIMs have the same vulnerability to bad-actor carriers? Is this a risk with any of the companies Airalo has partnered with?

tedivm 5y ago

Google Fi (originally Project Fi) was amazing when it first came out, but at some point they switched to contracted support with no ability to resolve issues (it's not even the support people's fault, as they literally don't have the power to do anything). For awhile Google people used to hang out in the Google Fi subreddit but they seem to have mostly moved on to other projects or companies. Besides locking phones like this example, their insurance has turned into a flat out scam- they either lose the phone completely, claim that the ID doesn't match the one in their system, or tell people there are no replacements available so they have to pay a fee for an "upgrade". Between this and the GCP price increases today is a pretty solid reminder that relying on any Google service is likely a mistake.

GiorgioG 5y ago
Google is turning into a complete sh*tshow across seemingly all product lines. Aside from Ads (I mean Search) I can't think of anything that hasn't fallen into disrepair or been EOL'd.
- dangrossman 5y ago
  Ads are just as bad, and Search is little more than Ads these days. They've outsourced Google Ads "account strategists" to contractors abroad who hound Google's advertisers by any and all contact methods they can find -- not those you've given Google -- to force you onto "account review" phone calls in which they talk you through ways to spend more on Google Ads. Then those ads get reviewed by people that don't have the time or knowledge to apply Google's ad policies properly, so they're constantly deactivating years-old ads for vague and very wrong reasons, until you resubmit the same ad and it's approved again, at least until the next random review. Google has no core competency any more.
  - tmp_anon_22 5y ago
    Our CTO had to get involved when some GCP SDR wouldn't stop hounding several ICs in our engineering org. We're an exclusively AWS shop and they didn't seem to be targeting decision makers. Multiple please-do-not-contact emails was not enough for them to stop. It was weird because you'd think they'd at least target decision makers based on LinkedIn titles.

mig39 5y ago

This happened to me with a nameless Canadian carrier. I bought an iPhone, unlocked, from Apple. It worked great with many SIMs in different countries. At some point, the screen broke on the phone, and Apple did an "AppleCare express replacement" where they sent me a replacement phone and I sent my broken one back. The next SIM I put in the phone locked the phone to that carrier. It took like 5 minutes with Apple support to have Apple unlock the phone. So perhaps that's a route the author could take?

bombcar 5y ago
This is the correct answer - Apple can unlock and may even do so - and if not there are darker methods of doing the unlocks. Not sure I wouldn’t try it for a $1,100 brick …
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Apple will unlock it if it’s an obvious mistake like this case - seems like the replacement phone’s activation policy wasn’t set to what the original phone had. However in the OP’s case it won’t help - this isn’t a bug, it’s Best Buy scamming customers by selling them locked phones and passing them off as unlocked. Apple will just tell you to contact Best Buy.
gnabgib 5y ago
I hope this was before December 2017[0], this behaviour hasn't been legal in Canada for half a decade. [0]: https://www.canada.ca/en/radio-television-telecommunications/news/2017/06/crtc_puts_an_endtolockedcellphonesandunlockingfees.html https://www.canada.ca/en/radio-television-telecommunications...

whoomp12342 5y ago

why would you use an iphone with google? asking for trouble...

benguild 5y ago

This is from 2020.

cft 5y ago

OP here. I came across this article while researching what to do: evacuated to Spain from Ukraine just before the war, with Covid and... Google Fi suddenly disconnected my phone! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678249

phendrenad2 5y ago

> causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile I'd check the fine-print on your Google contract. It's probably spelled out in there. Say what you will about Google, their legal team usually covers all the bases.

rahimnathwani 5y ago
Neither Google nor T-Mobile locked the phone. _Apple_ programmed it to lock _itself_ to the first carrier with which it was used.
- elmerfud 5y ago
  This is 100% the correct answer! The user can also log into his Apple account and unlock the phone. The reason T-Mobile customer service won't do it is because without a service plan they can't verify ownership.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Are you confusing the Find My iPhone feature or Activation Lock? None of these depend on the SIM besides a SIM change triggering a re-check of the activation lock status (it’ll just ask you for your Apple ID credentials). Carrier lock is not something the user has easy visibility on (until recently it wasn’t even possible to tell which carrier a phone was locked to without trying them all) and definitely no control over.

mc_woods 5y ago

If what he says is true, then legally, the issue is with Google. It is Google he had the contract with. The contract allowed Google to terminate his data service, which they did. However, it is Google to which he pays his money and with which the contract exists. The fact that under the hood they use T-Mobile, doesn't matter. I was tempted to switch, but now. No. Staying far and wide away. Not for the locking, but the terrible customer support.

muh_gradle 5y ago

5 years ago I used Google Fi and it was just awful. I bought a Nexus 5x on a Google Fi deal. Fi was super unreliable, customer service was dumpster fire garbage, and multiple hardware issues with the Nexus 5x and the sim card for whatever reason. There were even recalls and class action lawsuits with the 5x and the 6p that I missed out on. Not at all surprised that Google Fi is still terrible.

kyleee 5y ago
the 6p was a great phone though and at the time the ease of use with international travel was a real treat
- muh_gradle 5y ago
  I didn't own one. I ended up choosing the budget option. But if it was known for being bricked because of the boot software like multiple Nexus 5x that I owned, then I am skeptical.

null0pointer 5y ago

> it looks like you’ve been predominantly using Fi abroad over the past 3 months I used my Fi SIM and international roaming continuously outside the US for 13 months over 2020/21 and never received a message like this or had my service cut. Makes me wonder if I just slipped through the cracks in their detection or something.

voso 5y ago
I just got an email last month booting me off after 22 months continuously abroad with no problems. This coincided with a lot of other people complaining online that they also just got cut. They definitely don't have any "detection" for you to slip through, they just check and enforce this manually occasionally.

rotanibmocy2 5y ago

limeblack 5y ago

As a disclaimer(I work at Best Buy and) we don’t sell phones unlocked unless they are refurbished which tend to be much older models so something does seem a miss slightly.

more_corn 5y ago

That’s pretty messed up. Sometimes local phone shops can unlock your phone for you.

Nextgrid 5y ago
Pretty much impossible with Apple unless they know someone crooked within Apple or the locking carrier. It’s not like modem locks where calculating an NCK code is sufficient - here the phone will regularly check in with Apple and the response tells it whether the SIM is allowed. It’s enforced at the OS level, and ironically, the modem itself is never locked.

bschwindHN 5y ago

For those who live outside the states but go to visit every once in awhile, what do you do for sim cards? I live in Japan and currently I switch to a google fi sim card when I visit, but it's far from ideal.

timcederman 5y ago
eSIMs are super easy - I was able to get a T-mobile eSIM online.
nikdoof 5y ago
I used Airalo, no hassle eSIM setup and roams onto AT&T and T-Mobile.

elmerfud 5y ago

I think there's more to the story than what's being said. It seems the customer is having trouble and either Google or T-Mobile should be better about handling the issue but I don't think we're receiving the entire story. I have used T-Mobile exclusively for many years now I have used it when they were being resold by harbor mobile. I'm very happy and satisfied with their service but I have moved both my sim and have placed other Sims from other carriers into my phone and I have never once received a message that my phone has been locked to T-Mobile as a carrier. Edit: so I had given this some more thought and I don't believe that this is Google or T-Mobile that's put the carrier lock on his phone it's something that Apple allows you to do. It's something that users of iPhone devices can enable or disable in their Apple account. Because I've actually gotten iPhones from family members who are tech savvy who verify that it's an unlocked phone but it would not accept my SIM card saying that it was locked to a carrier. What they needed to do to fix it was log into their Apple account and release the carrier lock that allowed the phone to take a new sim. So this is really Apple anti-theft protection that he's got going on. T-Mobile was one of the first bring your own device companies where they separated service plans from devices payment plans. I hope he gets his problem fixed and updates his medium post to indicate that this really isn't a Google fi or a T-Mobile issue.

cschmid 5y ago

No carrier should be able to brick a phone without it being locked to the network. I did some research online, and it seems that the culprit here is actually Best Buy (and Apple) for selling phones as unlocked although they actually aren't: Apple sells iPhones to third parties under a 'US Reseller Flex Policy' [1], which means that they are automatically locked to the first carrier they are activated on. Nothing on the Best Buy website gives me any indication of this happening. If this is really true, it's deceptive advertisement. I'm not a lawyer, but this looks illegal. [1]: https://swappa.com/faq/answer/us-reseller-flex-policy https://swappa.com/faq/answer/us-reseller-flex-policy

frogperson 5y ago
Try to buy a phone from best buy and not have them set it up for you. It's impossible, they will refuse to sell you the phone.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  They charge extra if you don’t activate the phone at the store.
  - throwawayninja 5y ago
    Few people will argue that freedom is free, shoulder the cost and enjoy liberty. It is absolutely a crummy business tactic however, I find myself spending huge amounts of time to buy directly from source instead of retailers / amazon / et al. The high-quality magnetic USB cables I originally discovered through amazon got pulled and I discovered ordering from their site directly was more painless than amazon.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mrjin 5y ago
If this was the case, then it is actually Apple to blame. Hard to believe there was such incessive practices. Under such scheme, the operator the device was locked(you will never know which as myself have multiple services and sometimes switch SIMs between devices, I assume I'm not alone) to might completely have no idea what was happening and I don't see a way that they can help the user easily.

exabrial 5y ago

Google bricked by LG v35. They had absolutely no remorse and support told me there was nothing they would do. (Notice I used the word would, because they absolutely could do something but that would interfere with $).

kyrra 5y ago
Mind expanding on how they bricked it?

theposey 5y ago

This isn't bricked at all. They suspended the cellular service and it's carrier locked. Needs a re-title, pretty clickbaity.

TillE 5y ago
Word usage changes, but it's super frustrating when a very specific term gets stretched and stretched until it barely means anything anymore. Bricked mean it's literally as useful as a brick - maybe it's recoverable via a JTAG interface or something similarly obscure, but it's otherwise dead. It doesn't mean "temporarily disabled until I make enough annoying phone calls".
- 3np 5y ago
  Breaking: "Bricked" bricked
mrjin 5y ago
Pretty much bricked for now for the author as he is oversea and there is no (easy) way to use it (at least for now).
Nextgrid 5y ago
Keep in mind that unlike legacy modem-level carrier locks that merely disable the modem, Apple’s implementation won’t even allow you to proceed past the setup screen without satisfying the SIM lock system first. The phone is literally a brick without it.

olliej 5y ago

Wow. Especially galling given Apple's activation lock already exists and is more effective.

gusmd 5y ago

> I learned that Google Fi exclusively uses the T-Mobile network for iPhone customers, and activating a Google Fi SIM with an iPhone causes T-Mobile to lock the phone to the T-Mobile network (which is illegal, since the user hasn’t entered into any service agreement with T-Mobile). This happened to me with an unlocked iPhone, bought at Best Buy, that I activated with a T-Mobile SIM card as well. Tried Apple support first, Apple couldn't care less. In the end T-Mobile themselves unlocked it after 2 full months of calling them almost daily and escalating, reaching out on social media, etc. This has nothing to do with Google Fi, and, if anything, I blame this on Apple for such a stupid fucking design that lets carriers unilaterally lock a brand new phone with no recourse.

Nextgrid 5y ago
At the very least Apple should’ve had big visible warnings displayed right on the boot screen for locked devices so that scummy carriers can’t “accidentally” sell locked phones as unlocked to unsuspecting customers. But then again it took them ages to even introduce a settings menu to be able to tell which carrier a given phone was locked to; previously there was no way to know without bruteforcing with all the SIMs and Apple Support explicitly refused to tell you. Apple may look like the good guys on the outside but they’re absolutely in bed with the carriers.

jbverschoor 5y ago

Avoid google. Noted

kbuck 5y ago

This is due to buying the phone from Best Buy. Best Buy's new Apple phones (even if claimed to be "unlocked") are configured to automatically carrier lock to the first SIM inserted. Fi's primary network is T-Mobile, so they lock to T-Mobile. See the many complaints in these search results: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=best+buy+lock+to+first+SIM&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=best+buy+lock+to+first+SIM&...

compsciphd 5y ago

the solution would be to find someone with a t-mobile sim, borrow the sim/lend them the phone and get the phone unlocked. "Hey, I just bought a used iphone that is locked to t-mobile, which is normally fine, but I'm about to go overseas and need to use it with a local sim card, can you unlock it for me" I've done this multiple times (spread out by years so not abusing anything).

MarkusWandel 5y ago

How can this even be a thing? My simplistic understanding is that if the phone is locked to a given carrier (down in the baseband part of it) sending a particular magic string of digits to it (the baseband) will clear that flag and it will henceforth be unlocked. Permanently. Is there really a corresponding re-lock operation? In Canada at least, we went through three stages. 1. Buy locked second-hand phone, send $20 to shady operator somewhere to get unlock code, unlock. 2. Buy locked second-hand phone, call up the carrier it is locked to and demand the unlock code, which (after the law changed) they had to legally give you free of charge[1], enter digits, unlock. 3. No more unlocked phones since carrier locking is now illegal. Doesn't that mean that in Canada, reaching down and "re-locking" a phone is also illegal? And since we're generally a bit behind here compared to the USA, how can such a problem even exist any more? Note[1]: My mom loves her landline phones and refuses to use a smartphone. So she has one of those cellular-to-phone-jack gateways. I procured a spare replacement via classified ads. It was locked. Called the carrier, got the digits. Entered them via DTMF keypad on an old fashioned phone. I could hardly believe this would work, but it did! The thing unlocked and henceforth worked with any SIM.