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I used to be fan of Snowden and Assange. Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. As another poster ment

I used to be fan of Snowden and Assange. Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. As another poster mentioned, they may have started that way but they became compromised and their motives now are not so clear. Self interest has become more prominent in their decisions and perhaps it was always that way. This protestor on the news however has courage.

codezero 5y ago
I generally feel the same, but I am also disappointed with the response from the US government in a lot of ways. All that said, when this all kicked off I was checking in on Snowden [0] to see if he was parroting Russian propaganda, which he was, in a sense, at first (as many where - there won't be a war, there won't be an invasion). His last tweet hit me pretty hard, and I started worrying about his general safety after that. I don't wish being in an authoritarian state as a foreigner during a massive external and internal conflict and I'm very worried for his safety (and I mean that both in and outside of Russia) [0] https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 "I'm not suspended from the ceiling above a barrel of acid by a rope that burns a little faster every time I tweet, you concern-trolling ghouls. I've just lost any confidence I had that sharing my thinking on this particular topic continues to be useful, because I called it wrong."
nojonestownpls 5y ago
> Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. I'd be curious to know what makes you say that, but beyond that, even the people here who believe their intent was not so pure cannot deny that the actual effect of the Snowden revelations has been a widely increased awareness about privacy, and much increased legitimacy for the products and ideas that attempt to improve the privacy situation for the average user (not sure if Assange/WikiLeaks revelations have had any material effect apart from shock at the scale of corruption being even beyond what people assumed). Far from the "Snowden revelations changed nothing" cry of despair that was popular for a while, it's becoming clear that they changed the conversation around privacy from hypothetical situations from tinfoil hatters, to something everyone can and does talk about.
- thevagrant 5y ago
  My previous comment was unpopular and I'm sure this will be also. I don't doubt the leaks from Snowden increased awareness of privacy. Snowdens early justification statements were "I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, Internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building. " He was either a pawn or naive. Perhaps at the time we all were. Snowden then went to China and then Russia. These are hardly the bastion of human rights, privacy and freedom that he supposedly fought for. At some point we have to admit that all countries of any significance likely have intelligence and monitoring programmes. Maybe (in countries with some semblance of freedom) these are there to protect us from those countries that work against those same principles Snowden claimed to support.
  - tmnvix 5y ago
    > Snowden then went to China and then Russia. These are hardly the bastion of human rights, privacy and freedom that he supposedly fought for. I can't fault him for that. What would you suggest that he should have done instead?

codezero 5y ago

I generally feel the same, but I am also disappointed with the response from the US government in a lot of ways. All that said, when this all kicked off I was checking in on Snowden [0] to see if he was parroting Russian propaganda, which he was, in a sense, at first (as many where - there won't be a war, there won't be an invasion). His last tweet hit me pretty hard, and I started worrying about his general safety after that. I don't wish being in an authoritarian state as a foreigner during a massive external and internal conflict and I'm very worried for his safety (and I mean that both in and outside of Russia) [0] https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 "I'm not suspended from the ceiling above a barrel of acid by a rope that burns a little faster every time I tweet, you concern-trolling ghouls. I've just lost any confidence I had that sharing my thinking on this particular topic continues to be useful, because I called it wrong."

nojonestownpls 5y ago

> Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. I'd be curious to know what makes you say that, but beyond that, even the people here who believe their intent was not so pure cannot deny that the actual effect of the Snowden revelations has been a widely increased awareness about privacy, and much increased legitimacy for the products and ideas that attempt to improve the privacy situation for the average user (not sure if Assange/WikiLeaks revelations have had any material effect apart from shock at the scale of corruption being even beyond what people assumed). Far from the "Snowden revelations changed nothing" cry of despair that was popular for a while, it's becoming clear that they changed the conversation around privacy from hypothetical situations from tinfoil hatters, to something everyone can and does talk about.

thevagrant 5y ago
My previous comment was unpopular and I'm sure this will be also. I don't doubt the leaks from Snowden increased awareness of privacy. Snowdens early justification statements were "I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, Internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building. " He was either a pawn or naive. Perhaps at the time we all were. Snowden then went to China and then Russia. These are hardly the bastion of human rights, privacy and freedom that he supposedly fought for. At some point we have to admit that all countries of any significance likely have intelligence and monitoring programmes. Maybe (in countries with some semblance of freedom) these are there to protect us from those countries that work against those same principles Snowden claimed to support.
- tmnvix 5y ago
  > Snowden then went to China and then Russia. These are hardly the bastion of human rights, privacy and freedom that he supposedly fought for. I can't fault him for that. What would you suggest that he should have done instead?