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I'm still shocked and amazed that anyone would willingly share their health data with corporations. Why? What could go right? I say that acknowledging your p

I'm still shocked and amazed that anyone would willingly share their health data with corporations. Why? What could go right? I say that acknowledging your point that this is possibly one of the better corporations out there. > Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with? I honestly can't even imagine the criteria whereby a corporation could be 'trusted' with personal information! It boggles my mind, that people think about this - and plainly you do - but come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data!

mulmen 5y ago
I prefer the corporations not have the data at all. The problem is Apple is simultaneously the best and also pretty bad at stewarding such an ecosystem. In theory all my actual health data would live on a device I own, encrypted, and accessible only by the apps I approve. In reality Apple can't or won't provide those mechanisms. Every other corporation wants to collect and sell my data. Apple had a chance to make on-premise data storage a thing. They had AirPort, which combined with a Mac Mini could provide full iCloud functionality from the home. iCloud itself could have simply been an encrypted offsite backup, like Tarsnap with no options. Instead Apple built a system that still puts clear user data within their reach.
- frogblast 5y ago
  What you wish for is exactly what HealthKit is. All app access is gated by ACLs that require per-app and per-record-type user approval, and always encrypted when transmitted off of your device. This is a quote from the Apple Health Privacy Policy: > When your device is locked with a passcode, Touch ID, or Face ID, all of your health and fitness data in the Health app — other than your Medical ID — is encrypted and inaccessible by default. Additionally, if you are using iOS 12 or later and turn on two-factor authentication, Apple will not be able to read your health and activity data synced to iCloud. The two factor authentication is the mechanism for key distribution such that HealthKit data can be synced and migrated between your own devices, without being decryptable by apple.
  - mulmen 5y ago
    Sure except Apple owns my device. So it’s all moot.
cheeze 5y ago
Many people don't care about health data being monetized. I don't personally care if Strava sells my heart rate data or where I rode my bike today. I'm fine with trading them that data for their heat map, which is super useful in planning rides. To me, it comes down to me being fine with this data being considered public. If others don't want to share it, that's totally fine and I understand their perspective. For me though? I couldn't care less. Congrats, you sold some data that says I'm fat, out of shape, and don't like riding my bike on busy roads.
- asdfadfas 5y ago
  > Congrats, you sold some data that says I'm fat, out of shape, and don't like riding my bike on busy roads. I can only imagine anyone buying the data does so only if they believe they can make more using the data. I don't think I know of anyone doing this now (not sure if there is regulation preventing this), but its not hard to imagine a eventuality where your health data/work out information can be used by your health insurance provider. Imagine a scenario, your bmi is higher than normal and is trending higher in the past few months, so that increases your risk for x and hence your insurance premiums go up. Would you care then?
  - stevenhubertron 5y ago
    Might be just the motivation needed. to get a few more miles in on every ride.
InCityDreams 5y ago
As long as they don't reveal my 'hidden zone', they're welcome to the lot, and I freely give it whilst severely understanding the 'risks'. If my W/kg or bpm can be monetized, go for it. Hit me with one single ad, though, and it's goodnight Vienna.
Gigachad 5y ago
Because a log of my cycling is the least important data to me and the value it provides is immense.
Riseed 5y ago
>> Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. > What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with? > It boggles my mind, that people ... come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data! I'm not OP. I chose Garmin precisely because I don't think it's ok for corporations to have this personal data. I chose Garmin because I can use it without needing to share any* of my data with a third party, including Garmin itself. I save the workout files to my computer via the same USB cable I use to charge the watch. There are various non-cloud apps I can use to view and analyze these workouts, if I actually cared to do so beyond the "fastest 5k" etc that the watch tracks automatically. For this, it does not matter to me whether Garmin is bought out in the future because my watch works just fine as-is, and cannot update its OS without my explicit permission. I'm unsure what data Garmin would be capable of sharing because I have given it none. * of course, speed/time/location data is obtained by pinging GPS/GLONASS satellites, but the watch can and does record my workouts quite accurately in non-GPS pedometer mode.
- exabrial 5y ago
  Garmin was designed to work off grid and not need the internet lifeline to San Francisco or us-east. Can't say that about any of their competition.
  - NoboruWataya 5y ago
    And yet when they got hit by ransomware a while back their mobile and web apps were rendered useless. You could neither add new activities, nor view old activities, nor sync with other apps. You could of course access the .FIT files directly on your device via USB, so maybe that's what you meant. Their hardware is pretty good for working off grid but you need other software to do anything with the data it creates unless you're connected to their servers.
    - Riseed 5y ago
      > And yet when they got hit by ransomware a while back their mobile and web apps were rendered useless. You could neither add new activities, nor view old activities, nor sync with other apps. Isn't that to be expected, if you're using their cloud services? The point is that Garmin is (or was, I've had my watch for a few years) designed in such a way that the cloud services are not a requirement for full use of the device. Yes, you can access the .FIT files directly via USB and then sync with other apps, such as TurtleSport, GPXsee, etc.

mulmen 5y ago

I prefer the corporations not have the data at all. The problem is Apple is simultaneously the best and also pretty bad at stewarding such an ecosystem. In theory all my actual health data would live on a device I own, encrypted, and accessible only by the apps I approve. In reality Apple can't or won't provide those mechanisms. Every other corporation wants to collect and sell my data. Apple had a chance to make on-premise data storage a thing. They had AirPort, which combined with a Mac Mini could provide full iCloud functionality from the home. iCloud itself could have simply been an encrypted offsite backup, like Tarsnap with no options. Instead Apple built a system that still puts clear user data within their reach.

frogblast 5y ago
What you wish for is exactly what HealthKit is. All app access is gated by ACLs that require per-app and per-record-type user approval, and always encrypted when transmitted off of your device. This is a quote from the Apple Health Privacy Policy: > When your device is locked with a passcode, Touch ID, or Face ID, all of your health and fitness data in the Health app — other than your Medical ID — is encrypted and inaccessible by default. Additionally, if you are using iOS 12 or later and turn on two-factor authentication, Apple will not be able to read your health and activity data synced to iCloud. The two factor authentication is the mechanism for key distribution such that HealthKit data can be synced and migrated between your own devices, without being decryptable by apple.
- mulmen 5y ago
  Sure except Apple owns my device. So it’s all moot.

cheeze 5y ago

Many people don't care about health data being monetized. I don't personally care if Strava sells my heart rate data or where I rode my bike today. I'm fine with trading them that data for their heat map, which is super useful in planning rides. To me, it comes down to me being fine with this data being considered public. If others don't want to share it, that's totally fine and I understand their perspective. For me though? I couldn't care less. Congrats, you sold some data that says I'm fat, out of shape, and don't like riding my bike on busy roads.

asdfadfas 5y ago
> Congrats, you sold some data that says I'm fat, out of shape, and don't like riding my bike on busy roads. I can only imagine anyone buying the data does so only if they believe they can make more using the data. I don't think I know of anyone doing this now (not sure if there is regulation preventing this), but its not hard to imagine a eventuality where your health data/work out information can be used by your health insurance provider. Imagine a scenario, your bmi is higher than normal and is trending higher in the past few months, so that increases your risk for x and hence your insurance premiums go up. Would you care then?
- stevenhubertron 5y ago
  Might be just the motivation needed. to get a few more miles in on every ride.

InCityDreams 5y ago

As long as they don't reveal my 'hidden zone', they're welcome to the lot, and I freely give it whilst severely understanding the 'risks'. If my W/kg or bpm can be monetized, go for it. Hit me with one single ad, though, and it's goodnight Vienna.

Gigachad 5y ago

Because a log of my cycling is the least important data to me and the value it provides is immense.

Riseed 5y ago

>> Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. > What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with? > It boggles my mind, that people ... come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data! I'm not OP. I chose Garmin precisely because I don't think it's ok for corporations to have this personal data. I chose Garmin because I can use it without needing to share any* of my data with a third party, including Garmin itself. I save the workout files to my computer via the same USB cable I use to charge the watch. There are various non-cloud apps I can use to view and analyze these workouts, if I actually cared to do so beyond the "fastest 5k" etc that the watch tracks automatically. For this, it does not matter to me whether Garmin is bought out in the future because my watch works just fine as-is, and cannot update its OS without my explicit permission. I'm unsure what data Garmin would be capable of sharing because I have given it none. * of course, speed/time/location data is obtained by pinging GPS/GLONASS satellites, but the watch can and does record my workouts quite accurately in non-GPS pedometer mode.

exabrial 5y ago
Garmin was designed to work off grid and not need the internet lifeline to San Francisco or us-east. Can't say that about any of their competition.
- NoboruWataya 5y ago
  And yet when they got hit by ransomware a while back their mobile and web apps were rendered useless. You could neither add new activities, nor view old activities, nor sync with other apps. You could of course access the .FIT files directly on your device via USB, so maybe that's what you meant. Their hardware is pretty good for working off grid but you need other software to do anything with the data it creates unless you're connected to their servers.
  - Riseed 5y ago
    > And yet when they got hit by ransomware a while back their mobile and web apps were rendered useless. You could neither add new activities, nor view old activities, nor sync with other apps. Isn't that to be expected, if you're using their cloud services? The point is that Garmin is (or was, I've had my watch for a few years) designed in such a way that the cloud services are not a requirement for full use of the device. Yes, you can access the .FIT files directly via USB and then sync with other apps, such as TurtleSport, GPXsee, etc.