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All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data. Garmin is the only one I actually tr

All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data. Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. The Strava/Garmin relationship is an interesting one: Strava has the social network, Garmin has the best devices [for serious Athletes, not casual users]. Garmin Connect is pretty cool in it's own right, but the Social features never really took off, which is where Strava plays and has a de-fact monopoly. Strava can't survive without Garmin, and Garmin benefits from Strava's content. Garmin has pulled some 'power moves' in the past though with people it doesn't like... A competitor: Wahoo, who made cycling GPS computers, was cut off from inserting data into Garmin Connect and it left a lot of users out in the cold. Most serious cyclists will use Garmin devices, not an Apple watch, to track their rides as it seamlessly integrates with ANT+ sensors: power, cadence, wheel speed, heart rate, chainring and cog positions sensors. Interesting to see Strava cut off Apple... I'm guessing it has to do something with preventing them from developing an alternative to the Strava social network.

js2 5y ago
> Garmin has the best devices [for serious Athletes, not casual users]. I’m a happy Garmin user but I know a lot of distance runners that have switched to Coros. They love the battery life w/o sacrificing GPS accuracy.
oneplane 5y ago
Strava isn't cut off from Apple. Instead, Garmin/Fitbit etc. would send their data to Strava, which then would forward it to Apple for them. The part where Strava takes the data from non-Strava apps is the one that got disabled (presumably by strava and not by garmin, but either could have).
- usrusr 5y ago
  Really surprising to see Strava actively avoiding the central switchboard role that would be such a powerful retention feature. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back very soon, with some low level UX polisher receiving that talk about power and responsibility.
- sulam 5y ago
  Garmin couldn't directly disable this, once Strava has your data they can do with it whatever they want, licensing permitting. Which is a segue into - while I have no specific knowledge of this case, I do think it's somewhat tricky to take data from a third party and then hand it on to another third party. Presumably all of this was mediated by the user, and user's desires should be paramount here, but it's an example of why I believe OAuth is fairly broken and what we should all be giving permission to is capabilities, not access.
verisimi 5y ago
I'm still shocked and amazed that anyone would willingly share their health data with corporations. Why? What could go right? I say that acknowledging your point that this is possibly one of the better corporations out there. > Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with? I honestly can't even imagine the criteria whereby a corporation could be 'trusted' with personal information! It boggles my mind, that people think about this - and plainly you do - but come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data!
- mulmen 5y ago
  I prefer the corporations not have the data at all. The problem is Apple is simultaneously the best and also pretty bad at stewarding such an ecosystem. In theory all my actual health data would live on a device I own, encrypted, and accessible only by the apps I approve. In reality Apple can't or won't provide those mechanisms. Every other corporation wants to collect and sell my data. Apple had a chance to make on-premise data storage a thing. They had AirPort, which combined with a Mac Mini could provide full iCloud functionality from the home. iCloud itself could have simply been an encrypted offsite backup, like Tarsnap with no options. Instead Apple built a system that still puts clear user data within their reach.
  - frogblast 5y ago
    What you wish for is exactly what HealthKit is. All app access is gated by ACLs that require per-app and per-record-type user approval, and always encrypted when transmitted off of your device. This is a quote from the Apple Health Privacy Policy: > When your device is locked with a passcode, Touch ID, or Face ID, all of your health and fitness data in the Health app — other than your Medical ID — is encrypted and inaccessible by default. Additionally, if you are using iOS 12 or later and turn on two-factor authentication, Apple will not be able to read your health and activity data synced to iCloud. The two factor authentication is the mechanism for key distribution such that HealthKit data can be synced and migrated between your own devices, without being decryptable by apple.
rodgerd 5y ago
> All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data. Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. I guess their huge data breach that they didn't notify and spent weeks fixing doesn't phase you, but it punted me out of their system.

js2 5y ago

> Garmin has the best devices [for serious Athletes, not casual users]. I’m a happy Garmin user but I know a lot of distance runners that have switched to Coros. They love the battery life w/o sacrificing GPS accuracy.

oneplane 5y ago

Strava isn't cut off from Apple. Instead, Garmin/Fitbit etc. would send their data to Strava, which then would forward it to Apple for them. The part where Strava takes the data from non-Strava apps is the one that got disabled (presumably by strava and not by garmin, but either could have).

usrusr 5y ago
Really surprising to see Strava actively avoiding the central switchboard role that would be such a powerful retention feature. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back very soon, with some low level UX polisher receiving that talk about power and responsibility.
sulam 5y ago
Garmin couldn't directly disable this, once Strava has your data they can do with it whatever they want, licensing permitting. Which is a segue into - while I have no specific knowledge of this case, I do think it's somewhat tricky to take data from a third party and then hand it on to another third party. Presumably all of this was mediated by the user, and user's desires should be paramount here, but it's an example of why I believe OAuth is fairly broken and what we should all be giving permission to is capabilities, not access.

verisimi 5y ago

I'm still shocked and amazed that anyone would willingly share their health data with corporations. Why? What could go right? I say that acknowledging your point that this is possibly one of the better corporations out there. > Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with? I honestly can't even imagine the criteria whereby a corporation could be 'trusted' with personal information! It boggles my mind, that people think about this - and plainly you do - but come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data!

mulmen 5y ago
I prefer the corporations not have the data at all. The problem is Apple is simultaneously the best and also pretty bad at stewarding such an ecosystem. In theory all my actual health data would live on a device I own, encrypted, and accessible only by the apps I approve. In reality Apple can't or won't provide those mechanisms. Every other corporation wants to collect and sell my data. Apple had a chance to make on-premise data storage a thing. They had AirPort, which combined with a Mac Mini could provide full iCloud functionality from the home. iCloud itself could have simply been an encrypted offsite backup, like Tarsnap with no options. Instead Apple built a system that still puts clear user data within their reach.
- frogblast 5y ago
  What you wish for is exactly what HealthKit is. All app access is gated by ACLs that require per-app and per-record-type user approval, and always encrypted when transmitted off of your device. This is a quote from the Apple Health Privacy Policy: > When your device is locked with a passcode, Touch ID, or Face ID, all of your health and fitness data in the Health app — other than your Medical ID — is encrypted and inaccessible by default. Additionally, if you are using iOS 12 or later and turn on two-factor authentication, Apple will not be able to read your health and activity data synced to iCloud. The two factor authentication is the mechanism for key distribution such that HealthKit data can be synced and migrated between your own devices, without being decryptable by apple.

rodgerd 5y ago

> All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data. Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information. I guess their huge data breach that they didn't notify and spent weeks fixing doesn't phase you, but it punted me out of their system.