3 ms·

This takes no less courage than what Edward Snowden or Julian Assange did - the scale of actions may be different, but the amount of danger they put themselves

This takes no less courage than what Edward Snowden or Julian Assange did - the scale of actions may be different, but the amount of danger they put themselves into, in order to do what they believe is the right thing, is absolutely admirable.

pupppet 5y ago
This took far more courage, she’s not safely hiding in some far off country.
- nojonestownpls 5y ago
  The nature of the medium she has to use makes that impossible, unfortunately.
toss1 5y ago
Bullsh*t Both of them are working FOR Putin Assange likely started with pure motives, but became compromised as WL ran out of money. He (claimed he) was about to release a pile of intelligence against the Russian govt & oligarchy, then never did, and was soon doing spots on RU. The vast bulk of Snowden's pilfered haul had nothing to do with his stated aims, and definitely put agents in danger. And of course he ended up there. Notice he's not said a word since the RUS invasion of Ukraine. He hasn't got enough courage to be worthy to lick clean the soles of Marina Ovsyannikova's shoes.
- jackthezipper 5y ago
  Such a terrible take. Wikileaks did leak Russian intelligence files. The argument that he hasn't leaked the same amount hinges on the assumption that he somehow has access to everything, which is of course nonsense. Snowden, I think, somewhat blinded by the overwhelming US propaganda machine and the fact that he's stuck in Russia, made an honest mistake. He admitted as much on his Twitter. Nobody's perfect, that doesn't mean they're working for Putin.
  - marviio 5y ago
    I'm sure Wikileaks started out with a genuine idealistic vision. But I think it's hard to deny that after a while it turned into a FSB puppet."Spy Files Russia" looks more like a planted leak to divert accusations. If I remember correctly all of the information was already out before the leak.
  - toss1 5y ago
    No, it is an entirely accurate take, and excessively kind to them, if anything. And what Snowden did or where he ended up have exactly zero to do with teh "US Propaganda machine" For reference on what such a machine actually looks like, go look at Russian media this last two weeks. Read what people who were actually in the intelligence agencies said; this [0][1]should have enough details and links to start you off. You might also note that while the progressive Barack Obama had no problem pardoning Manning, he did no such thing for Snowdon. This was after the US House Intelligence Committee — not intelligence agency people, and both parties — UNANIMOUSLY voted to approve a report on Edward Snowden finding that he "did tremendous damage" to U.S. national security [2]. Perhaps you can explain how the whole airport fiasco and taking on Snowdon could have happened without Putin's direct approval - and why he'd do such a thing if it is "only" US civil rights issues at stake from Snowdon's theft. Perhaps you can also explain how among the million+ documents Snowdon stole, only a few actually have anything to do with the headlines touting the civil liberty cause - e.g., exposing details of Israel’s killing of senior WMD proliferators in Syria [3]. Seriously, how does that improve anything in the US? If you actually bother to look, without the hero-worshipping glasses and Qanon-level suspicion of anything related to government, you find that his massive story is a fraud. Seriously, stop being fooled. I was similarly fooled, until I started trying to find actual experts on what had happened, and not just going along with the utter Kremlin line pushed out by popular trolls like Greenwald, and picked up and repeated uncritically. [0] https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy- https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committ https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committ... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-rel https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-rel... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost...
thevagrant 5y ago
I used to be fan of Snowden and Assange. Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. As another poster mentioned, they may have started that way but they became compromised and their motives now are not so clear. Self interest has become more prominent in their decisions and perhaps it was always that way. This protestor on the news however has courage.
- codezero 5y ago
  I generally feel the same, but I am also disappointed with the response from the US government in a lot of ways. All that said, when this all kicked off I was checking in on Snowden [0] to see if he was parroting Russian propaganda, which he was, in a sense, at first (as many where - there won't be a war, there won't be an invasion). His last tweet hit me pretty hard, and I started worrying about his general safety after that. I don't wish being in an authoritarian state as a foreigner during a massive external and internal conflict and I'm very worried for his safety (and I mean that both in and outside of Russia) [0] https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 "I'm not suspended from the ceiling above a barrel of acid by a rope that burns a little faster every time I tweet, you concern-trolling ghouls. I've just lost any confidence I had that sharing my thinking on this particular topic continues to be useful, because I called it wrong."
- nojonestownpls 5y ago
  > Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. I'd be curious to know what makes you say that, but beyond that, even the people here who believe their intent was not so pure cannot deny that the actual effect of the Snowden revelations has been a widely increased awareness about privacy, and much increased legitimacy for the products and ideas that attempt to improve the privacy situation for the average user (not sure if Assange/WikiLeaks revelations have had any material effect apart from shock at the scale of corruption being even beyond what people assumed). Far from the "Snowden revelations changed nothing" cry of despair that was popular for a while, it's becoming clear that they changed the conversation around privacy from hypothetical situations from tinfoil hatters, to something everyone can and does talk about.
timeon 5y ago
> This takes no less courage than what Edward Snowden Similar to Snowden was case of Alexander Litvinenko. Unfortunately Litvinenko was not hiding from USA but from Russia and is now dead.

pupppet 5y ago

This took far more courage, she’s not safely hiding in some far off country.

nojonestownpls 5y ago
The nature of the medium she has to use makes that impossible, unfortunately.

toss1 5y ago

Bullsh*t Both of them are working FOR Putin Assange likely started with pure motives, but became compromised as WL ran out of money. He (claimed he) was about to release a pile of intelligence against the Russian govt & oligarchy, then never did, and was soon doing spots on RU. The vast bulk of Snowden's pilfered haul had nothing to do with his stated aims, and definitely put agents in danger. And of course he ended up there. Notice he's not said a word since the RUS invasion of Ukraine. He hasn't got enough courage to be worthy to lick clean the soles of Marina Ovsyannikova's shoes.

jackthezipper 5y ago
Such a terrible take. Wikileaks did leak Russian intelligence files. The argument that he hasn't leaked the same amount hinges on the assumption that he somehow has access to everything, which is of course nonsense. Snowden, I think, somewhat blinded by the overwhelming US propaganda machine and the fact that he's stuck in Russia, made an honest mistake. He admitted as much on his Twitter. Nobody's perfect, that doesn't mean they're working for Putin.
- marviio 5y ago
  I'm sure Wikileaks started out with a genuine idealistic vision. But I think it's hard to deny that after a while it turned into a FSB puppet."Spy Files Russia" looks more like a planted leak to divert accusations. If I remember correctly all of the information was already out before the leak.
- toss1 5y ago
  No, it is an entirely accurate take, and excessively kind to them, if anything. And what Snowden did or where he ended up have exactly zero to do with teh "US Propaganda machine" For reference on what such a machine actually looks like, go look at Russian media this last two weeks. Read what people who were actually in the intelligence agencies said; this [0][1]should have enough details and links to start you off. You might also note that while the progressive Barack Obama had no problem pardoning Manning, he did no such thing for Snowdon. This was after the US House Intelligence Committee — not intelligence agency people, and both parties — UNANIMOUSLY voted to approve a report on Edward Snowden finding that he "did tremendous damage" to U.S. national security [2]. Perhaps you can explain how the whole airport fiasco and taking on Snowdon could have happened without Putin's direct approval - and why he'd do such a thing if it is "only" US civil rights issues at stake from Snowdon's theft. Perhaps you can also explain how among the million+ documents Snowdon stole, only a few actually have anything to do with the headlines touting the civil liberty cause - e.g., exposing details of Israel’s killing of senior WMD proliferators in Syria [3]. Seriously, how does that improve anything in the US? If you actually bother to look, without the hero-worshipping glasses and Qanon-level suspicion of anything related to government, you find that his massive story is a fraud. Seriously, stop being fooled. I was similarly fooled, until I started trying to find actual experts on what had happened, and not just going along with the utter Kremlin line pushed out by popular trolls like Greenwald, and picked up and repeated uncritically. [0] https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy- https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committ https://web.archive.org/web/20200606111426/https://20committ... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-rel https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-intelligence-committee-rel... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost https://web.archive.org/web/20200226232346/https://www.jpost...

thevagrant 5y ago

I used to be fan of Snowden and Assange. Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. As another poster mentioned, they may have started that way but they became compromised and their motives now are not so clear. Self interest has become more prominent in their decisions and perhaps it was always that way. This protestor on the news however has courage.

codezero 5y ago
I generally feel the same, but I am also disappointed with the response from the US government in a lot of ways. All that said, when this all kicked off I was checking in on Snowden [0] to see if he was parroting Russian propaganda, which he was, in a sense, at first (as many where - there won't be a war, there won't be an invasion). His last tweet hit me pretty hard, and I started worrying about his general safety after that. I don't wish being in an authoritarian state as a foreigner during a massive external and internal conflict and I'm very worried for his safety (and I mean that both in and outside of Russia) [0] https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 "I'm not suspended from the ceiling above a barrel of acid by a rope that burns a little faster every time I tweet, you concern-trolling ghouls. I've just lost any confidence I had that sharing my thinking on this particular topic continues to be useful, because I called it wrong."
nojonestownpls 5y ago
> Lately I've concluded their motives were not 'for the greater good' as they initially made out. I'd be curious to know what makes you say that, but beyond that, even the people here who believe their intent was not so pure cannot deny that the actual effect of the Snowden revelations has been a widely increased awareness about privacy, and much increased legitimacy for the products and ideas that attempt to improve the privacy situation for the average user (not sure if Assange/WikiLeaks revelations have had any material effect apart from shock at the scale of corruption being even beyond what people assumed). Far from the "Snowden revelations changed nothing" cry of despair that was popular for a while, it's becoming clear that they changed the conversation around privacy from hypothetical situations from tinfoil hatters, to something everyone can and does talk about.

timeon 5y ago

> This takes no less courage than what Edward Snowden Similar to Snowden was case of Alexander Litvinenko. Unfortunately Litvinenko was not hiding from USA but from Russia and is now dead.