4 ms·

Any suggestions on a stack if one wants to run their own mail server? Debian with postfix and some sort of round cube still the way to go? I am aware of what i

Any suggestions on a stack if one wants to run their own mail server? Debian with postfix and some sort of round cube still the way to go? I am aware of what it entails regarding IP "cleaning", setting a reverse record, SPF and DKIM. Just looking for tips on the software stack side.

scumola 5y ago
any linux distro with postfix would be the best/fastest self-hosted solution
jacquesm 5y ago
Mailinabox.
kardianos 5y ago
You could try maddy: https://maddy.email/ https://maddy.email/ An all-in-one stack.
- mholt 5y ago
  I love the idea of maddy. (I swear it's inspired by Caddy but I have no proof.) I do kinda wish it was just made into a Caddy module, though.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Here's your proof[0]: > Is it caddy for email? > No. It was intended to be one but developers quickly acknowledged the fact email cannot be easily abstracted behind some magic. The only other instances of Caddy are that they copied a "caddyfile lexer" [1] and seemingly a typo in a test[2]. 0: https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d08c7f0e3927df64f10db915a9d3c1660c0fca4b/docs/faq.md#is-it-caddy-for-email https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d08c7f0e3927df64f10db91... 1: https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fefe2a7a622e2abf6bd/framework/config/lexer/README.md https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fe... 2: https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fefe2a7a622e2abf6bd/framework/address/validation_test.go#L11 https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fe...
    - mholt 5y ago
      Interesting! Things for the links/info.
exac 5y ago
There is a hidden cost to this though. Running your own email server, or even having a lesser-known company manage your email server, can cause your emails to be sent to spam without any action on your part. You aren't notified when your email goes to a spam folder, so you always have to worry that the recipient of your emails didn't receive the email, even if you only ever send legitimate emails. If you stay on top of all the best-practices for running your own mail server, your hidden cost is the mind-share that that takes.
- judge2020 5y ago
  In theory this shouldn't be a problem if you aren't using a known-trash IP and have SPF and DKIM set up, since the only thing the major inbox providers want is a way to verify and associate spam reputation with a domain instead of an IP. If this really hurts you can just set up Amazon SES use that via SMTP, you'll get 62k free emails a month (always free, not just first 12 months). This even works if you want a mostly-free setup: you have MX forwarding via some provider (Cloudflare, your registrar, etc) going to a personal address, and SES operates as your outbound SPF that works with Outlook/Gmail in terms of allowing you to set your domain email(s) as aliases within their interface.
  - croutonwagon 5y ago
    Thats not entirely true. Microsoft is crazy on what it flags, and their AI straight just does "things". Their support has admitted as much when i had tickets open for months trying to white list basic GNU/Hurd list serves (that I didnt run). Im sure just running Mail in a Box on linode would 100% flag it. I KNOW google would because half the time i socks through one of my linodes (that i have used and owned the IP for years on) i get thrown through all sorts of captchas on services. INCLUDING signing into my own gsuite from it (despite an established history of just doing it). Unfortunately the big players own mail, they do what they want. In fact having a domain registered with one will do better for your mail reputation than most would care to admit. Just look at how MS uses SMTPS on port 25, sure they COULD use 587 or 465, but they dont: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/mail-flow-best-practices/use-connectors-to-configure-mail-flow/set-up-connectors-to-route-mail https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/mail-flow-best-pra...
vbezhenar 5y ago
OpenBSD with opensmtpd is the most sane approach to SMTP. You probably will need dovecot for IMAP which is not that easy to configure but default configuration mostly fine.
SteveNuts 5y ago
iredmail is good
fuzzy2 5y ago
I use mailcow-dockerized. The default web frontend, SOGo, is so-so, but I mostly use iOS Mail and Thunderbird to access it.
nullwarp 5y ago
I use docker-mailcow for pretty much everything on a 20$/m linode instance and just use Postmark to do the actual delivery. Been sharing this setup with about 20 family/friends for a while now (5 years?)
mappu 5y ago
I set this all up last month with docker-mailserver, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, the rDNS ptr, sharing LE cert with dokku, with alps for webmail, and it all seemed to be working fine (round-trip delivery to Gmail addresses, etc) until one day I tried to email an outlook.com address and immediately got told my IP was blocked. The mail server's IP is a pretty normal cloud VPS IP from a major hosting company. It's not on any public blocklists. I submitted unblock requests to MS, and signed up for their SNDS service, but all requests were denied without explanation and I simply made no progress. My conclusion is that this route is impossible - do not waste time trying it.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  > Worked great until one provider, Outlook.com, blocked me. Do not try cause you may run into an issue like me and get upset and quit. Now I use Outlook.com instead.
- 3np 5y ago
  Microsoft are the worst (and the only ones that ever posed a hassle for us). I recommend raising the issue with support of your cloud VPS. They most likely handle cases like this routinely and have channels to MS that can get this resolved much smoother, IME. It's their IPs, after all.
77pt77 5y ago
You'll be considered SPAM almost everywhere. It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter that you are replying to an email and the message-id is referenced. It'll be considered SPAM. DKIM, DMARC and SPF mitigate it a bit, but not really. Yesterday I had a form ask me for my email and it only accepted @gmail.com Every other domain I tried was refused as invalid. Email is dead.

scumola 5y ago

any linux distro with postfix would be the best/fastest self-hosted solution

jacquesm 5y ago

Mailinabox.

kardianos 5y ago

You could try maddy: https://maddy.email/ https://maddy.email/ An all-in-one stack.

mholt 5y ago
I love the idea of maddy. (I swear it's inspired by Caddy but I have no proof.) I do kinda wish it was just made into a Caddy module, though.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Here's your proof[0]: > Is it caddy for email? > No. It was intended to be one but developers quickly acknowledged the fact email cannot be easily abstracted behind some magic. The only other instances of Caddy are that they copied a "caddyfile lexer" [1] and seemingly a typo in a test[2]. 0: https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d08c7f0e3927df64f10db915a9d3c1660c0fca4b/docs/faq.md#is-it-caddy-for-email https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d08c7f0e3927df64f10db91... 1: https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fefe2a7a622e2abf6bd/framework/config/lexer/README.md https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fe... 2: https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fefe2a7a622e2abf6bd/framework/address/validation_test.go#L11 https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy/blob/d8cabb932d9e7c3abd056fe...
  - mholt 5y ago
    Interesting! Things for the links/info.

exac 5y ago

There is a hidden cost to this though. Running your own email server, or even having a lesser-known company manage your email server, can cause your emails to be sent to spam without any action on your part. You aren't notified when your email goes to a spam folder, so you always have to worry that the recipient of your emails didn't receive the email, even if you only ever send legitimate emails. If you stay on top of all the best-practices for running your own mail server, your hidden cost is the mind-share that that takes.

judge2020 5y ago
In theory this shouldn't be a problem if you aren't using a known-trash IP and have SPF and DKIM set up, since the only thing the major inbox providers want is a way to verify and associate spam reputation with a domain instead of an IP. If this really hurts you can just set up Amazon SES use that via SMTP, you'll get 62k free emails a month (always free, not just first 12 months). This even works if you want a mostly-free setup: you have MX forwarding via some provider (Cloudflare, your registrar, etc) going to a personal address, and SES operates as your outbound SPF that works with Outlook/Gmail in terms of allowing you to set your domain email(s) as aliases within their interface.
- croutonwagon 5y ago
  Thats not entirely true. Microsoft is crazy on what it flags, and their AI straight just does "things". Their support has admitted as much when i had tickets open for months trying to white list basic GNU/Hurd list serves (that I didnt run). Im sure just running Mail in a Box on linode would 100% flag it. I KNOW google would because half the time i socks through one of my linodes (that i have used and owned the IP for years on) i get thrown through all sorts of captchas on services. INCLUDING signing into my own gsuite from it (despite an established history of just doing it). Unfortunately the big players own mail, they do what they want. In fact having a domain registered with one will do better for your mail reputation than most would care to admit. Just look at how MS uses SMTPS on port 25, sure they COULD use 587 or 465, but they dont: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/mail-flow-best-practices/use-connectors-to-configure-mail-flow/set-up-connectors-to-route-mail https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/mail-flow-best-pra...

vbezhenar 5y ago

OpenBSD with opensmtpd is the most sane approach to SMTP. You probably will need dovecot for IMAP which is not that easy to configure but default configuration mostly fine.

SteveNuts 5y ago

iredmail is good

fuzzy2 5y ago

I use mailcow-dockerized. The default web frontend, SOGo, is so-so, but I mostly use iOS Mail and Thunderbird to access it.

nullwarp 5y ago

I use docker-mailcow for pretty much everything on a 20$/m linode instance and just use Postmark to do the actual delivery. Been sharing this setup with about 20 family/friends for a while now (5 years?)

mappu 5y ago

I set this all up last month with docker-mailserver, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, the rDNS ptr, sharing LE cert with dokku, with alps for webmail, and it all seemed to be working fine (round-trip delivery to Gmail addresses, etc) until one day I tried to email an outlook.com address and immediately got told my IP was blocked. The mail server's IP is a pretty normal cloud VPS IP from a major hosting company. It's not on any public blocklists. I submitted unblock requests to MS, and signed up for their SNDS service, but all requests were denied without explanation and I simply made no progress. My conclusion is that this route is impossible - do not waste time trying it.

encryptluks2 5y ago
> Worked great until one provider, Outlook.com, blocked me. Do not try cause you may run into an issue like me and get upset and quit. Now I use Outlook.com instead.
3np 5y ago
Microsoft are the worst (and the only ones that ever posed a hassle for us). I recommend raising the issue with support of your cloud VPS. They most likely handle cases like this routinely and have channels to MS that can get this resolved much smoother, IME. It's their IPs, after all.

77pt77 5y ago

You'll be considered SPAM almost everywhere. It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter that you are replying to an email and the message-id is referenced. It'll be considered SPAM. DKIM, DMARC and SPF mitigate it a bit, but not really. Yesterday I had a form ask me for my email and it only accepted @gmail.com Every other domain I tried was refused as invalid. Email is dead.