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May I kindly ask what distro you last tried? I ask mainly because I came to a realization not too long ago that I stopped using Windows back when 7 was release

May I kindly ask what distro you last tried? I ask mainly because I came to a realization not too long ago that I stopped using Windows back when 7 was released. It's been a bumpy road, but my last few installs in the past half-decade were more for fun (spring cleaning) or trying out a new distro, and not because I borked my system running errant commands. Especially if you're not using bleeding edge hardware, almost all things just work. I know you'll bring up the usual refrains of "hey how about that hibernate function in linux?" or "how are your video drivers lately?", and while they're all legitimate points, Windows has got its own fair share of "wtfs" that Windows users are all too quick to gloss over. Maybe I'm being a bit of an old man here (mid-30s), but I remember booting into a fresh XP install and having nothing work properly. No video drivers, no ethernet, no wifi, no sound... it usually led to a full day of installing drivers. You'll probably say Windows is better now, and it probably is. Again, I just haven't used Windows in over a decade. I don't remember the last time I logged into a fresh linux install and didn't have ethernet.

wintermutestwin 5y ago
Linux Mint wiped out the boot loader on my Intel MacBook even though I was installing it on an external drive. I'm much older and agree that some modern Linux distributions are smoother than old-school Windows. I am just pointing out that Linux still requires a lot of unnecessary time suck due to it being in the "hobbyist tweaker" category.
- smallerfish 5y ago
  On a macbook you're in hobbyist territory unfortunately, with Linux. It doesn't even work on various recent years of macbooks, due to various ways Apple locked things down. Same goes for MS Surface hardware - you _can_ get it working, but there are more hoops to jump through. Try it on less locked down and more open hardware and you'll have more reliable results.
  - t-writescode 5y ago
    On everything but the server, you're a hobbyist with Linux, unfortunately. It's perfectly fine and hobbyists make *amazing* things; but it remains very niche and tinkerer/hobbyist level. For everyone else, there's, Windows, Android, iOS, Chromebooks and Mac... I think in that order, even.
    - smallerfish 5y ago
      > On everything but the server, you're a hobbyist with Linux, unfortunately. That's far from true. On reasonably non-esoteric desktop hardware it's robust. On most laptops (unless you're using an external 4K screen) it's also perfectly fine.
      - t-writescode 5y ago
        We're using multiple definitions of "hobbyist". The act of using Linux outside of the server context for a personal machine is hobbyist. There are hobbyists within the hobby.
        smallerfish 5y ago
        > The act of using Linux outside of the server context for a personal machine is hobbyist. I don't know how you arrive at that, unless you're trolling or haven't gone that deep on Linux. Linux is a far better development environment for many languages and ecosystems than Windows, and Mac (granted of course that you'll have a much better time on Windows with .NET, etc). I've been forced to use both now and again in various jobs over the years and have always gone back to Linux. Mac is better for non-programming office software, and Windows has better games support.
        t-writescode 5y ago
        I've never met a person that thinks Numbers is better than Excel. Word, too. Keynote is popular, of course, for Mac OS X. I made a poor definition of "personal machine". It did not include development. Developing software at home and for fun is, of course, a relatively niche hobby; but, I will grant you that Linux is a very, very good development environment. Mac OS X is pretty great for photographers and cinematographers, etc. At least as of 2020 (https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share...), Windows had 87% market share, Mac OS had about 10.7, and Linux had 1.7. IT looks like it was based around UserAgent checking? Which means it would include software developer's worker machines when they log into random websites, as well. You're using the words "better experience", etc; but, perhaps the problem here is that we're not using the same definition of "hobbyist". Product quality had nothing to do with hobbyist in my definition. It was more "support expectations".
- maltelau 5y ago
  One time Windows 10 wiped the boot loader on my desktop and threw a fit until I formatted the whole disk so it could place itself first unlike the partition I thought I had assigned it. Then I reinstalled windows 10 on the same computer a couple of years later and the installer couldn't even format my drive to install it, just threw bland "not working" errors until I manually formatted and installed the windows bootloader from a rescue drive. What's your point?
  - djmips 5y ago
    Kind of like a vendetta. There's plenty of old stories of dumb Windows blowing up multi OS installs etc.
- goosedragons 5y ago
  Did you set it to install the bootloader on the external drive? I'm not so sure it's a bug as preference to put the bootloader on sda or whatever the first drive is. You can definitely change it. I've had MacOS kill a day trying to get gdb working but I could never get it properly working with codesign despite following multiple tutorials to do exactly that. I've also had Windows decide to do things like sliently update my tablet rotation driver to one that actually doesn't work with the hardware. They can all be unnecessary time sucks.
- Epiphany21 5y ago
  This sounds like a user error. Every Linux installer I've seen will ask which device you want the bootloader files on. Most will even warn of an unbootable install if you don't specify a valid EFI partition if you're installing to GPT disks. Making the EFI partition is also extremely easy. You just need to use a tool like GParted to make a 500MB FAT32 partition at the start of a drive somewhere. Apple Macs also have notoriously difficult firmware (only made to boot macOS or Windows via Bootcamp with special drivers). You should try something designed to cope with its pure awfulness like the rEFInd bootloader instead of GRUB or whatever systemd uses.
culopatin 5y ago
Im trying to switch and my Ubuntu install on a 8 series Intel laptop keeps the cpu freq stuck at 800mhz. If I manually change the governor’s min freq it goes up, but it’s not dynamic. Sadness. Updated to the latest mainline kernel and no luck. These are basic things that should work by now. But hey, I’m not contributing to the project and I’m not paying for it so I can’t complain much. Just unfortunate that I can’t start using the system without having to spend hours figuring this out
BenjiWiebe 5y ago
This reminds me... I've experienced a fresh install of Windows not having Ethernet more times than on Linux....

wintermutestwin 5y ago

Linux Mint wiped out the boot loader on my Intel MacBook even though I was installing it on an external drive. I'm much older and agree that some modern Linux distributions are smoother than old-school Windows. I am just pointing out that Linux still requires a lot of unnecessary time suck due to it being in the "hobbyist tweaker" category.

smallerfish 5y ago
On a macbook you're in hobbyist territory unfortunately, with Linux. It doesn't even work on various recent years of macbooks, due to various ways Apple locked things down. Same goes for MS Surface hardware - you _can_ get it working, but there are more hoops to jump through. Try it on less locked down and more open hardware and you'll have more reliable results.
- t-writescode 5y ago
  On everything but the server, you're a hobbyist with Linux, unfortunately. It's perfectly fine and hobbyists make *amazing* things; but it remains very niche and tinkerer/hobbyist level. For everyone else, there's, Windows, Android, iOS, Chromebooks and Mac... I think in that order, even.
  - smallerfish 5y ago
    > On everything but the server, you're a hobbyist with Linux, unfortunately. That's far from true. On reasonably non-esoteric desktop hardware it's robust. On most laptops (unless you're using an external 4K screen) it's also perfectly fine.
    - t-writescode 5y ago
      We're using multiple definitions of "hobbyist". The act of using Linux outside of the server context for a personal machine is hobbyist. There are hobbyists within the hobby.
      - smallerfish 5y ago
        > The act of using Linux outside of the server context for a personal machine is hobbyist. I don't know how you arrive at that, unless you're trolling or haven't gone that deep on Linux. Linux is a far better development environment for many languages and ecosystems than Windows, and Mac (granted of course that you'll have a much better time on Windows with .NET, etc). I've been forced to use both now and again in various jobs over the years and have always gone back to Linux. Mac is better for non-programming office software, and Windows has better games support.
        t-writescode 5y ago
        I've never met a person that thinks Numbers is better than Excel. Word, too. Keynote is popular, of course, for Mac OS X. I made a poor definition of "personal machine". It did not include development. Developing software at home and for fun is, of course, a relatively niche hobby; but, I will grant you that Linux is a very, very good development environment. Mac OS X is pretty great for photographers and cinematographers, etc. At least as of 2020 (https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share...), Windows had 87% market share, Mac OS had about 10.7, and Linux had 1.7. IT looks like it was based around UserAgent checking? Which means it would include software developer's worker machines when they log into random websites, as well. You're using the words "better experience", etc; but, perhaps the problem here is that we're not using the same definition of "hobbyist". Product quality had nothing to do with hobbyist in my definition. It was more "support expectations".
maltelau 5y ago
One time Windows 10 wiped the boot loader on my desktop and threw a fit until I formatted the whole disk so it could place itself first unlike the partition I thought I had assigned it. Then I reinstalled windows 10 on the same computer a couple of years later and the installer couldn't even format my drive to install it, just threw bland "not working" errors until I manually formatted and installed the windows bootloader from a rescue drive. What's your point?
- djmips 5y ago
  Kind of like a vendetta. There's plenty of old stories of dumb Windows blowing up multi OS installs etc.
goosedragons 5y ago
Did you set it to install the bootloader on the external drive? I'm not so sure it's a bug as preference to put the bootloader on sda or whatever the first drive is. You can definitely change it. I've had MacOS kill a day trying to get gdb working but I could never get it properly working with codesign despite following multiple tutorials to do exactly that. I've also had Windows decide to do things like sliently update my tablet rotation driver to one that actually doesn't work with the hardware. They can all be unnecessary time sucks.
Epiphany21 5y ago
This sounds like a user error. Every Linux installer I've seen will ask which device you want the bootloader files on. Most will even warn of an unbootable install if you don't specify a valid EFI partition if you're installing to GPT disks. Making the EFI partition is also extremely easy. You just need to use a tool like GParted to make a 500MB FAT32 partition at the start of a drive somewhere. Apple Macs also have notoriously difficult firmware (only made to boot macOS or Windows via Bootcamp with special drivers). You should try something designed to cope with its pure awfulness like the rEFInd bootloader instead of GRUB or whatever systemd uses.

culopatin 5y ago

Im trying to switch and my Ubuntu install on a 8 series Intel laptop keeps the cpu freq stuck at 800mhz. If I manually change the governor’s min freq it goes up, but it’s not dynamic. Sadness. Updated to the latest mainline kernel and no luck. These are basic things that should work by now. But hey, I’m not contributing to the project and I’m not paying for it so I can’t complain much. Just unfortunate that I can’t start using the system without having to spend hours figuring this out

BenjiWiebe 5y ago

This reminds me... I've experienced a fresh install of Windows not having Ethernet more times than on Linux....