3 ms·

It seems to me that TurnItIn and proctoring take care of 99% of problems in exams if the exams are well-constructed such that consulting hidden notes wouldn't h

It seems to me that TurnItIn and proctoring take care of 99% of problems in exams if the exams are well-constructed such that consulting hidden notes wouldn't help much. The 1% of exams that remain problematic are the memorization-style exams that maybe shouldn't still exist in the modern age.

jvanderbot 5y ago
Right. there are plenty of exams in tech that require plain old practice and on-the-spot ingenuity. However, for medical and other fields, memorization and recall is key, so it's rife for this kind of cheating. But honestly, if someone were to tattoo the same information onto their arm, there's an argument to be made it was permanently accessible just as much as memory.
- asdff 5y ago
  I mean it is kind of stupid even for medical. You are never in the middle of the desert having the memorize the mechanical properties of the inner ear. Every doctor there is has reference books in reality. Why not let people just bring those books to their exams if that's how the job actually works in reality? Learning how to consult a reference for information is just another mental offshoring tool like a calculator, so its a little silly when exams force you to work without it.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
To an extent, yes. As a programmer who can't remember the syntax for declaring a two dimensional array and populating it with hard-coded strings, I feel somewhat hypocritical when I say that Medicine seems to be valid domain for rote memorization.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  When was the last time someone’s life depended on you recalling the syntax for a two dimensional array within the next few seconds? I think it’s OK to hold medical professionals to a higher standard.
  - asdff 5y ago
    How often do doctors even need to do this? Everything they do probably has a standard operating procedure printed out in a binder that can be dictated by a nurse. The training should be in learning how to take those instructions and turn it into action, not that as well as having to memorize all the instructions that are going to be referenceable anyhow. Maybe if the training were more like the former than the latter, fewer med students and residents would be pulling all nighters on some amphetamine. Personally, going into an ER I'd rather be met with well slept, focused hands that consult the relevant information, rather than a sleep deprived zombie barking out protocol they hypnotized themselves into remembering.
    - nkrisc 5y ago
      From what I know, not often. But more often than a developer.
imoverclocked 5y ago
Sometimes memorization itself is important to a role. How would you test for that, if not an exam that tests memorized facts? From recent personal experience: pilots need to know certain information so that it can be employed on a whim to help solve time-critical problems. The written exam (which precedes a practical exam) definitely requires memorization.

jvanderbot 5y ago

Right. there are plenty of exams in tech that require plain old practice and on-the-spot ingenuity. However, for medical and other fields, memorization and recall is key, so it's rife for this kind of cheating. But honestly, if someone were to tattoo the same information onto their arm, there's an argument to be made it was permanently accessible just as much as memory.

asdff 5y ago
I mean it is kind of stupid even for medical. You are never in the middle of the desert having the memorize the mechanical properties of the inner ear. Every doctor there is has reference books in reality. Why not let people just bring those books to their exams if that's how the job actually works in reality? Learning how to consult a reference for information is just another mental offshoring tool like a calculator, so its a little silly when exams force you to work without it.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

To an extent, yes. As a programmer who can't remember the syntax for declaring a two dimensional array and populating it with hard-coded strings, I feel somewhat hypocritical when I say that Medicine seems to be valid domain for rote memorization.

nkrisc 5y ago
When was the last time someone’s life depended on you recalling the syntax for a two dimensional array within the next few seconds? I think it’s OK to hold medical professionals to a higher standard.
- asdff 5y ago
  How often do doctors even need to do this? Everything they do probably has a standard operating procedure printed out in a binder that can be dictated by a nurse. The training should be in learning how to take those instructions and turn it into action, not that as well as having to memorize all the instructions that are going to be referenceable anyhow. Maybe if the training were more like the former than the latter, fewer med students and residents would be pulling all nighters on some amphetamine. Personally, going into an ER I'd rather be met with well slept, focused hands that consult the relevant information, rather than a sleep deprived zombie barking out protocol they hypnotized themselves into remembering.
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    From what I know, not often. But more often than a developer.

imoverclocked 5y ago

Sometimes memorization itself is important to a role. How would you test for that, if not an exam that tests memorized facts? From recent personal experience: pilots need to know certain information so that it can be employed on a whim to help solve time-critical problems. The written exam (which precedes a practical exam) definitely requires memorization.