5 ms·

In other words: the last generation did not train the new one, and usability is expected to suffer. Also, there are few to no replacements. Because at some poi

In other words: the last generation did not train the new one, and usability is expected to suffer. Also, there are few to no replacements. Because at some point, the last generation decided Windows was the only real OS. Oops!

atlgator 5y ago
To be fair, the new generation has no respect for the old one. Oh, you're a software engineer in your late 30s? Gross.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
chomp 5y ago
> In other words: the last generation did not train the new one, and usability is expected to suffer. Probably is the case, however, a learned lesson sticks better than a taught lesson. Or at least that's my hypothesis as to why our industry ends up operating in a cycle of relearning past lessons.
bruce511 5y ago
Well clearly windows is not the only OS, so your thesis seems inaccurate. It's not even the only PC OS, arguably there are 2 serious Desktop OS's, Windows and MacOS. With Linux desktop a very distant 3rd. On servers there is Linux and Windows Server, with a few minor 3rds (BSD maybe?). On phones there are 2, 3rd place quit. In the cloud there are 2 providers in AWS and Azure. With Google a distant 3rd. Are you spotting a trend? Seems like each platform will support 2 to 3 players, usually with one dominant, one subordinate, and possibly one or two also-rans. When the platform is new there's lots of variety, but as the sector matures so the 2 winners emerge. Turns out that OSs are only as good as their developer community, and developers will support 1 or 2 platforms, not more. So 3rd place exists on scraps with few users and fewer developers. This has nothing to do with what a generation decides - each platform has a winner and a follower, and little else. To change the OS you have to change the platform, or invent a new one. Or maybe 2nd can overtake first (chrome over firefox/ie) but examples of that are rare. So don't be blaming a generation, the players are just the players - the game is the game.
- dijit 5y ago
  hard not to be flippant, but <10% of the market share going to MacOS does not make it a "serious" competitor, especially not in business where it's probably closer to ~5% if even that.
  - wongarsu 5y ago
    statcounter.com lists MacOS as 15% of global desktop market share [1]. It's a bit more in some markets (25% in NA) and a bit less in others (5% in South America), and anecdotally dominant in some niches (US Startups, EU designers, etc). But I think your point stands that Windows is the overwhelming majority of the market, MacOS a distant second and everyone else barely notable (ChromeOS ranks above Linux). 1: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    And all of that ~5% are going to be graphic designers, video editors, etc. With the occasional executive who insists on using a mac because it's all they know at home.
  - samtheDamned 5y ago
    it'S serious in terms of usability and support
  - bruce511 5y ago
    15% of billions is a lot. While the exact number of desktops is likely unknown, its safe to assume MacOS has several hundred million users. I'd suggest that as serious. But it merely reflects my point that there tends to be one big player in most markets. Android / ios is also skewed (globally) but ios is very much a player. You don't have to be number 1 to be in the game, but past number 2 it's very hard to break in. And if number 2 is strong, close to impossible.
t-writescode 5y ago
I don't think that's really fair. I know enough former Microsoft employees and was one long ago enough to know that they don't really listen to us unless we're the team that designed it. Removing the start button was a classic example, and there is or was plenty of unrest in the walls of Microsoft around all the data being collected. I am more than confident there are 10s of thousands of employees that are either resigned in disappointment or actively annoyed at what Microsoft has done here with these ads, just like the Skydrive ads before them. Disclosure: worked for Microsoft a long time ago. My views, obviously, do not reflect their values.

atlgator 5y ago

To be fair, the new generation has no respect for the old one. Oh, you're a software engineer in your late 30s? Gross.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

chomp 5y ago

> In other words: the last generation did not train the new one, and usability is expected to suffer. Probably is the case, however, a learned lesson sticks better than a taught lesson. Or at least that's my hypothesis as to why our industry ends up operating in a cycle of relearning past lessons.

bruce511 5y ago

Well clearly windows is not the only OS, so your thesis seems inaccurate. It's not even the only PC OS, arguably there are 2 serious Desktop OS's, Windows and MacOS. With Linux desktop a very distant 3rd. On servers there is Linux and Windows Server, with a few minor 3rds (BSD maybe?). On phones there are 2, 3rd place quit. In the cloud there are 2 providers in AWS and Azure. With Google a distant 3rd. Are you spotting a trend? Seems like each platform will support 2 to 3 players, usually with one dominant, one subordinate, and possibly one or two also-rans. When the platform is new there's lots of variety, but as the sector matures so the 2 winners emerge. Turns out that OSs are only as good as their developer community, and developers will support 1 or 2 platforms, not more. So 3rd place exists on scraps with few users and fewer developers. This has nothing to do with what a generation decides - each platform has a winner and a follower, and little else. To change the OS you have to change the platform, or invent a new one. Or maybe 2nd can overtake first (chrome over firefox/ie) but examples of that are rare. So don't be blaming a generation, the players are just the players - the game is the game.

dijit 5y ago
hard not to be flippant, but <10% of the market share going to MacOS does not make it a "serious" competitor, especially not in business where it's probably closer to ~5% if even that.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  statcounter.com lists MacOS as 15% of global desktop market share [1]. It's a bit more in some markets (25% in NA) and a bit less in others (5% in South America), and anecdotally dominant in some niches (US Startups, EU designers, etc). But I think your point stands that Windows is the overwhelming majority of the market, MacOS a distant second and everyone else barely notable (ChromeOS ranks above Linux). 1: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  And all of that ~5% are going to be graphic designers, video editors, etc. With the occasional executive who insists on using a mac because it's all they know at home.
- samtheDamned 5y ago
  it'S serious in terms of usability and support
- bruce511 5y ago
  15% of billions is a lot. While the exact number of desktops is likely unknown, its safe to assume MacOS has several hundred million users. I'd suggest that as serious. But it merely reflects my point that there tends to be one big player in most markets. Android / ios is also skewed (globally) but ios is very much a player. You don't have to be number 1 to be in the game, but past number 2 it's very hard to break in. And if number 2 is strong, close to impossible.

t-writescode 5y ago

I don't think that's really fair. I know enough former Microsoft employees and was one long ago enough to know that they don't really listen to us unless we're the team that designed it. Removing the start button was a classic example, and there is or was plenty of unrest in the walls of Microsoft around all the data being collected. I am more than confident there are 10s of thousands of employees that are either resigned in disappointment or actively annoyed at what Microsoft has done here with these ads, just like the Skydrive ads before them. Disclosure: worked for Microsoft a long time ago. My views, obviously, do not reflect their values.