4 ms·

No, sorry, 'income and wealth inequality' is not the major driver of the west coast's skyrocketing crime & grime. (I do think these inequalities' growing nature

by alanh 5y ago

No, sorry, 'income and wealth inequality' is not the major driver of the west coast's skyrocketing crime & grime. (I do think these inequalities' growing natures are problems.) The major driver is a population whose beliefs and guilts cause them to choose politicians and policies that act as magnets for addicts, and a refusal to take crime seriously, much less be tough on it. Sane, good people who cannot afford to be in $WestCoastCity do not move into a tent and acquire meth habits. They move away, somewhere they can afford. I know, I’ve lived with these people, I’ve been these people. Sane-but-not-well-off people leaving is probably harmful for $WestCoastCity's culture and economy, but it is not where the blight comes from. It’s drugs (see: San Fransicko) and crime-tolerant laws & attitudes.

sharkweek 5y ago
So what should we do? Build more jails and throw all the addicts in them?
- alanh 5y ago
  Building more jails shouldn't be necessary — but yes. Offer the choice of jail or rehab. (This is what e.g. Michael Shellenberger is calling for, as well as recovered drug addicts I know and respect.) This is has a dramatically better chance of saving the addict than does the status quo of bouncing them back from death with Narcan so they can do the same thing tomorrow… and the day after… and the day after… until they die.
  - BaseballPhysics 5y ago
    A few years ago I noticed an interesting trend in music in that it was going back and reviving old styles from the 1970s and 1980s. And like the 70s and 80s, it worked when it worked, but when it didn't, it really didn't. It's interesting seeing the same revivalist trend in public policy, particularly with respect to law enforcement and drug policies. Like those musicians, I can only surmise that younger generations think, for whatever reason, that they can do it better this time.
girzel 5y ago
I live in the Seattle's university district. Homelessness has doubled or tripled since COVID. The vast majority of them mentally ill. Tell me how COVID ruined our citizens' moral fiber. Tell me how COVID made us soft on crime. Tell me how COVID suddenly tripled our population of mentally ill. If we'd actually defunded the police, instead of saying we wanted to and then not, maybe there would be some money to care for people who are obviously incapable of caring for themselves. If we taxed our local corporations at all, maybe there would be some money for that. Yes, there are plenty of people on drugs. You can put them in jail, and see where that gets you. Or you can treat addiction like the public health crisis it is. Fund the goddamn services, with tax money from Amazon.
somethingwitty1 5y ago
If we are throwing around anecdotes. I grew up in an east coast city run by the exact opposite politicians and policies you are complaining about. The crime rates and safety in that city was far worse than Seattle's numbers. Even today, it has some of the highest crime rates in the country. They don't have any of these policies you are saying are causing this. You know what they do have? A massive income and wealth inequality. This is a complex situation and the political axe grinding really moves nothing in the right direction. Neither sides' solutions have "worked". They have just shifted where the burden is.

by alanh 5y ago

sharkweek 5y ago

So what should we do? Build more jails and throw all the addicts in them?

alanh 5y ago
Building more jails shouldn't be necessary — but yes. Offer the choice of jail or rehab. (This is what e.g. Michael Shellenberger is calling for, as well as recovered drug addicts I know and respect.) This is has a dramatically better chance of saving the addict than does the status quo of bouncing them back from death with Narcan so they can do the same thing tomorrow… and the day after… and the day after… until they die.
- BaseballPhysics 5y ago
  A few years ago I noticed an interesting trend in music in that it was going back and reviving old styles from the 1970s and 1980s. And like the 70s and 80s, it worked when it worked, but when it didn't, it really didn't. It's interesting seeing the same revivalist trend in public policy, particularly with respect to law enforcement and drug policies. Like those musicians, I can only surmise that younger generations think, for whatever reason, that they can do it better this time.

girzel 5y ago

I live in the Seattle's university district. Homelessness has doubled or tripled since COVID. The vast majority of them mentally ill. Tell me how COVID ruined our citizens' moral fiber. Tell me how COVID made us soft on crime. Tell me how COVID suddenly tripled our population of mentally ill. If we'd actually defunded the police, instead of saying we wanted to and then not, maybe there would be some money to care for people who are obviously incapable of caring for themselves. If we taxed our local corporations at all, maybe there would be some money for that. Yes, there are plenty of people on drugs. You can put them in jail, and see where that gets you. Or you can treat addiction like the public health crisis it is. Fund the goddamn services, with tax money from Amazon.

somethingwitty1 5y ago

If we are throwing around anecdotes. I grew up in an east coast city run by the exact opposite politicians and policies you are complaining about. The crime rates and safety in that city was far worse than Seattle's numbers. Even today, it has some of the highest crime rates in the country. They don't have any of these policies you are saying are causing this. You know what they do have? A massive income and wealth inequality. This is a complex situation and the political axe grinding really moves nothing in the right direction. Neither sides' solutions have "worked". They have just shifted where the burden is.