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Couple things: - C4 fixation is a characteristic of smaller, monocot plants. Trees are slower-growing dicots. There are more pathways to these organisms than

Couple things: - C4 fixation is a characteristic of smaller, monocot plants. Trees are slower-growing dicots. There are more pathways to these organisms than just increasing energy production efficiency. For example, have you proven that trees actually reinvest the excess glucose into growth, rather than trigger negative feedback pathways to slow glucose production? - Also, you claim that the plant is faster growing with harder wood. Typically with trees, the speed of growth is inversely proportionate to the strength of the wood - i.e. cottonwoods and box elders grow fast but are terrible woods, while oak and maple are the inverse. Given the long lifespan of these organisms, have you any preliminary data to back up these claims that these trees are growing faster and stronger? I used to do plant transgenics in a past life, and while skeptical, I do see projects like this as a solution for the future - though more along the lines of faster growing algae because ultimately the bottom line is the variable cost of converting sq meters of sunlight into carbon energy. It's just super easy to fall for hype and go straight to science fiction rather than focus on the science.

ianai 5y ago
And with algae my mind switches to the oceans. Ocean water's actually got lithium deposits and other things that, if we could get to them, would be useful. So it'd be cool if algae + science could somehow output the oceans contents in more industrial friendly formats. Especially if that meant carbon sequestration.
- always2slow 5y ago
  Maybe the lithium in the ocean serves a purpose we are unaware of and we shouldn't screw with it?
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Hint: we are already screwing with the ocean on a mass industrial scale. The question should be whether there is a way for any given activity to help mitigate the more harmful of those effects. Changing nothing is actively harmful, and anyway impossible. Human activity is big enough that the only responsible course available is stewardship.
    - always2slow 5y ago
      Did you just advocate for a tragedy of the commons like it was a good thing?
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        Stewardship is exactly the opposite of tragedy of the commons.
        always2slow 5y ago
        Yes, but I guess what I'm implying is that you're just going to have multiple actors exploiting whatever they like under the banner of "Stewardship"
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Literally all actors are doing whatever they like, today. Most particularly, they are dissolving gigatons of CO2 into surface water, acidifying it. Besides that, a few are trying to control overfishing in coastal waters they have asserted a day over, with varying levels of success, both externally and domestically, subject to politics.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        *asserted authority over
- bduerst 5y ago
  That's an interesting take. I was thinking more along the lines of huge (albeit expensive) algae bioreactors in empty deserts for a more controlled GMO environment, but one that would allow for much more accelerated carbon capture to desired outputs, like biodiesel, plastic precursors, etc. It's true the oceans are filled with aqueous rare metals, but the volume is such you'd need a fast-processing mobile operation, and like the other commenter said, I'm not sure we need another anthropogenic operation harvesting from the ocean.
maddiehalla 5y ago
Good question, the research we are doing on increasing the durability of wood is separate from the research on photosynthesis. The durability of wood largely has to do with the ratio of lignin to cellulose. Historically organizations focused on increasing growth rate for bioenergy have worked on changing that ration to create fast growing but less dense wood. That's different from what we are doing at Living Carbon. We don't expect to see increases in wood durability from photosynthesis-enhancement alone. Biochemically our photosynthesis-enhancement strategy is a metabolic bypass pathway that reduces the energy that goes towards photorespiration allowing for more energy to go toward growth. When talking to investors I sometimes say it's like putting the plant into ketosis :) albeit that is not the perfect analog. When it comes to improving the durability of wood, one of our approaches focuses on improving the ability of trees to accumulate and store metals in their lignin. Metals act as natural fungicides and slow the decomposition of trees. Other ideas include some of the world the Salk Institute has done on increasing Suberin production. Here's a paper that demonstrates how a doubling in nickel concentration in norwegian spruce led to slower decomposition: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0929139316301913?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09291... The crazy thing here is that there is SO MUCH precedent from accumulation of metals by trees in nature. In certain parts of New Caledonia a tree called pycnandra acuminata thrives in ultramorph aka Nickel rich soil. It has up to 24% nickel sap concentration and can be tapped for nickel citrate actually. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45398434 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45398434
- Apofis 5y ago
  You guys are amazing. This has been one of my wet dreams as far as a natural carbon capture mechanisms go. It always seemed like a no-brainer to me. I wonder how far this can go? I know it's a fantasy, but imagine we can get sequoias to grow at a monstrous pace? It'll be a massive boon to CO2 draw-down, which is the real issue since not a single country on earth is on track to meeting 2050 Paris Accord goals. Good luck guys and hopefully maybe one day in the future we may partner on project. Keep on rockin'!
  - ncmncm 5y ago

ianai 5y ago

And with algae my mind switches to the oceans. Ocean water's actually got lithium deposits and other things that, if we could get to them, would be useful. So it'd be cool if algae + science could somehow output the oceans contents in more industrial friendly formats. Especially if that meant carbon sequestration.

always2slow 5y ago
Maybe the lithium in the ocean serves a purpose we are unaware of and we shouldn't screw with it?
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Hint: we are already screwing with the ocean on a mass industrial scale. The question should be whether there is a way for any given activity to help mitigate the more harmful of those effects. Changing nothing is actively harmful, and anyway impossible. Human activity is big enough that the only responsible course available is stewardship.
  - always2slow 5y ago
    Did you just advocate for a tragedy of the commons like it was a good thing?
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Stewardship is exactly the opposite of tragedy of the commons.
      - always2slow 5y ago
        Yes, but I guess what I'm implying is that you're just going to have multiple actors exploiting whatever they like under the banner of "Stewardship"
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Literally all actors are doing whatever they like, today. Most particularly, they are dissolving gigatons of CO2 into surface water, acidifying it. Besides that, a few are trying to control overfishing in coastal waters they have asserted a day over, with varying levels of success, both externally and domestically, subject to politics.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        *asserted authority over
bduerst 5y ago
That's an interesting take. I was thinking more along the lines of huge (albeit expensive) algae bioreactors in empty deserts for a more controlled GMO environment, but one that would allow for much more accelerated carbon capture to desired outputs, like biodiesel, plastic precursors, etc. It's true the oceans are filled with aqueous rare metals, but the volume is such you'd need a fast-processing mobile operation, and like the other commenter said, I'm not sure we need another anthropogenic operation harvesting from the ocean.

maddiehalla 5y ago

Good question, the research we are doing on increasing the durability of wood is separate from the research on photosynthesis. The durability of wood largely has to do with the ratio of lignin to cellulose. Historically organizations focused on increasing growth rate for bioenergy have worked on changing that ration to create fast growing but less dense wood. That's different from what we are doing at Living Carbon. We don't expect to see increases in wood durability from photosynthesis-enhancement alone. Biochemically our photosynthesis-enhancement strategy is a metabolic bypass pathway that reduces the energy that goes towards photorespiration allowing for more energy to go toward growth. When talking to investors I sometimes say it's like putting the plant into ketosis :) albeit that is not the perfect analog. When it comes to improving the durability of wood, one of our approaches focuses on improving the ability of trees to accumulate and store metals in their lignin. Metals act as natural fungicides and slow the decomposition of trees. Other ideas include some of the world the Salk Institute has done on increasing Suberin production. Here's a paper that demonstrates how a doubling in nickel concentration in norwegian spruce led to slower decomposition: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0929139316301913?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09291... The crazy thing here is that there is SO MUCH precedent from accumulation of metals by trees in nature. In certain parts of New Caledonia a tree called pycnandra acuminata thrives in ultramorph aka Nickel rich soil. It has up to 24% nickel sap concentration and can be tapped for nickel citrate actually. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45398434 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45398434

Apofis 5y ago
You guys are amazing. This has been one of my wet dreams as far as a natural carbon capture mechanisms go. It always seemed like a no-brainer to me. I wonder how far this can go? I know it's a fantasy, but imagine we can get sequoias to grow at a monstrous pace? It'll be a massive boon to CO2 draw-down, which is the real issue since not a single country on earth is on track to meeting 2050 Paris Accord goals. Good luck guys and hopefully maybe one day in the future we may partner on project. Keep on rockin'!
- ncmncm 5y ago