4 ms·

Patent Troll suing coffee shops, restaurants or hotels for offering Wifi

89 points by mikeocool 15y ago

monochromatic 15y ago
How the hell do you write an article like this without even mentioning what patent they're suing on?
- eli 15y ago
  From the court filing: U.S. Patent No. 6,714,559 (“the ‘559 Patent”) titled “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.” Linked: http://www.google.com/patents?id=zi8SAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.google.com/patents?id=zi8SAAAAEBAJ&printsec=a... I am neither a lawyer nor an RF expert, but it looks pretty bogus to me.
  - cube13 15y ago
    I can see how Cisco, Motorola, or any of the 802.11 equipment providers could be infringing on this patent. It doesn't make much sense to not be suing them... Oh, wait. Motorola and Cisco are suing these bastards. I'm also not sure why they're not suing McDonalds, since they also provide free WiFi, and are located in Oak Brook. Probably because McDonalds would crush them in court.
    - TheCapn 15y ago
      That's exactly the point. They pick "victims" that would potentially be able to fight off the lawsuits in court but to do so would cost more than to just settle. A company like McDonalds keeps lawyers on retainer and are paying them regardless of whether they're battling patent trolls at the time or not so they'd be guaranteed to meet in court. Having the "loser" of a frivolous suit in court pay the other's fees would resolve this issue in a hurry.
  - keeperofdakeys 15y ago
    Here I thought patents applied to physical products or manufacturing techniques, not services. So, theoretically, if someone had a patent for "transporting goods or people from one location to another, geographically different location", they could pretty much sue every driver? What I find strangest about this is that they bought this technology off the shelf, using it for its intended (only) purpose.
    - monochromatic 15y ago
      > Here I thought patents applied to physical products or manufacturing techniques, not services. Nothing wrong with patenting a method. > So, theoretically, if someone had a patent for "transporting goods or people from one location to another, geographically different location", they could pretty much sue every driver? You might have a prior art problem...
mkopinsky 15y ago
> By demanding a few thousand dollars, Innovatio ensures that, for many small business owners, taking up a legal defense won’t make financial sense. What a load of crap. By only extorting a moderate sum of dough, Innovatio ensures that, for many small business owners, taking up a legal defense won’t make financial sense.
- gojomo 15y ago
  Perhaps the legal system needs a sort of 'reverse class action', so that Innovatio would have to sue the entire class at once, and the class could pool their resources for a defense.
chrislomax 15y ago
These people are literally selling their souls for money. It's a cliche but seriously, how do these people sleep at night?
- chao- 15y ago
  In very comfortable, expensive beds. But in all seriousness, humans are very good at rationalizing their circumstances. Tell yourself something often enough, and over time you will come to believe it. Even if someone introduces you to an alternative view, alternative evidence, or logic that suggests the contrary, humans are equally skilled at rationalizing away such claims. In the event you were to demonstrate some social ill resulting from the actions of this law firm, the likelihood that you would spark a change in their behavior is low. I recall an HN post a few months back regarding the ways in which, and rates at which, people dismiss evidence that questions their views, and the ways in which they seize upon and emphasize claims that agree with them. Will edit with link if I can find it. EDIT: After some searching, could not find the article I was searching for, but did find a number of others addressing the same issue. The best among which were these two: 1. http://whywereason.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/psychologys-treacherous-trio-confirmation-bias-cognitive-dissonance-and-motivated-reasoning/ http://whywereason.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/psychologys-trea... 2. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/19/when-in-doubt-shout-%E2%80%93-why-shaking-someone%E2%80%99s-beliefs-turns-them-into-stronger-advocates/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/1...
- blantonl 15y ago
  more importantly, at what point did a group of folks, presumably sitting around a conference table, make the conscious decision to execute this type of strategy? Motorola and Cisco have jumped in, and expect others with vested interests (Google, Microsoft, Apple etc) to pile on in behind and absolutely crush Innovatio. So we can hope...
  - pavel_lishin 15y ago
    > at what point did a group of folks, presumably sitting around a conference table, make the conscious decision to execute this type of strategy? Three seconds after the accountant sitting in the meeting with them hit the "=" button on his calculator.
SODaniel 15y ago
There is business, then there is bad business, and then there is scum. These guys fall firmly into category 3.
- stricken 15y ago
  I think you may still be giving them too much credit.

89 points by mikeocool 15y ago

monochromatic 15y ago

How the hell do you write an article like this without even mentioning what patent they're suing on?

eli 15y ago
From the court filing: U.S. Patent No. 6,714,559 (“the ‘559 Patent”) titled “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.” Linked: http://www.google.com/patents?id=zi8SAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.google.com/patents?id=zi8SAAAAEBAJ&printsec=a... I am neither a lawyer nor an RF expert, but it looks pretty bogus to me.
- cube13 15y ago
  I can see how Cisco, Motorola, or any of the 802.11 equipment providers could be infringing on this patent. It doesn't make much sense to not be suing them... Oh, wait. Motorola and Cisco are suing these bastards. I'm also not sure why they're not suing McDonalds, since they also provide free WiFi, and are located in Oak Brook. Probably because McDonalds would crush them in court.
  - TheCapn 15y ago
    That's exactly the point. They pick "victims" that would potentially be able to fight off the lawsuits in court but to do so would cost more than to just settle. A company like McDonalds keeps lawyers on retainer and are paying them regardless of whether they're battling patent trolls at the time or not so they'd be guaranteed to meet in court. Having the "loser" of a frivolous suit in court pay the other's fees would resolve this issue in a hurry.
- keeperofdakeys 15y ago
  Here I thought patents applied to physical products or manufacturing techniques, not services. So, theoretically, if someone had a patent for "transporting goods or people from one location to another, geographically different location", they could pretty much sue every driver? What I find strangest about this is that they bought this technology off the shelf, using it for its intended (only) purpose.
  - monochromatic 15y ago
    > Here I thought patents applied to physical products or manufacturing techniques, not services. Nothing wrong with patenting a method. > So, theoretically, if someone had a patent for "transporting goods or people from one location to another, geographically different location", they could pretty much sue every driver? You might have a prior art problem...

mkopinsky 15y ago

> By demanding a few thousand dollars, Innovatio ensures that, for many small business owners, taking up a legal defense won’t make financial sense. What a load of crap. By only extorting a moderate sum of dough, Innovatio ensures that, for many small business owners, taking up a legal defense won’t make financial sense.

gojomo 15y ago
Perhaps the legal system needs a sort of 'reverse class action', so that Innovatio would have to sue the entire class at once, and the class could pool their resources for a defense.

chrislomax 15y ago

These people are literally selling their souls for money. It's a cliche but seriously, how do these people sleep at night?

chao- 15y ago
In very comfortable, expensive beds. But in all seriousness, humans are very good at rationalizing their circumstances. Tell yourself something often enough, and over time you will come to believe it. Even if someone introduces you to an alternative view, alternative evidence, or logic that suggests the contrary, humans are equally skilled at rationalizing away such claims. In the event you were to demonstrate some social ill resulting from the actions of this law firm, the likelihood that you would spark a change in their behavior is low. I recall an HN post a few months back regarding the ways in which, and rates at which, people dismiss evidence that questions their views, and the ways in which they seize upon and emphasize claims that agree with them. Will edit with link if I can find it. EDIT: After some searching, could not find the article I was searching for, but did find a number of others addressing the same issue. The best among which were these two: 1. http://whywereason.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/psychologys-treacherous-trio-confirmation-bias-cognitive-dissonance-and-motivated-reasoning/ http://whywereason.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/psychologys-trea... 2. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/19/when-in-doubt-shout-%E2%80%93-why-shaking-someone%E2%80%99s-beliefs-turns-them-into-stronger-advocates/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/1...
blantonl 15y ago
more importantly, at what point did a group of folks, presumably sitting around a conference table, make the conscious decision to execute this type of strategy? Motorola and Cisco have jumped in, and expect others with vested interests (Google, Microsoft, Apple etc) to pile on in behind and absolutely crush Innovatio. So we can hope...
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  > at what point did a group of folks, presumably sitting around a conference table, make the conscious decision to execute this type of strategy? Three seconds after the accountant sitting in the meeting with them hit the "=" button on his calculator.

SODaniel 15y ago

There is business, then there is bad business, and then there is scum. These guys fall firmly into category 3.

stricken 15y ago
I think you may still be giving them too much credit.