4 ms·

It might help to explain what de-escalating would consist of in this situation.

cryptonector 5y ago
I don't know. It might mean having some proper negotiations over the future of Ukraine. It might end in partition. It might end in some other way. Right now things are headed in directions that strike me as very dangerous. I would feel a lot better if there was an attempt at negotiation.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Negotiation would require acceptance that one side is the West/EU, which itself would be a major escalation. As long as the situation continues to be framed as Ukraine defending on its own, then the only negotiation point is for Russia to decide to stop attacking - Ukrainians won't stop defending their country. Internationally, Russia has dug itself a deep hole with its own shortsighted actions - 1. hundreds of billions of dollars of damage and outsized civilian death that necessitates hefty war reparations to Ukraine 2. foreign investment and reconstruction that Russia simply cannot supply 3. Ukraine would be highly foolish to give up seeking NATO membership as "neutrality" would just be an invitation for Russia to rebuild its army and restart the same war in the future 4. becoming part of Russia's empire has become even less attractive with the ascendant totalitarianism.
  - kavalg 5y ago
    Having part of Ukraine in EU is not impossible and I think with the current state of matters, may be accepted by many. The other option is a full NATO-Russia confrontation that will tip the scales in one or the other direction. Of course all this assumes that it doesn't escalate up to a nuclear exchange. It looks like the desired outcome for the US is to remove Putin from power and to bring democracy to Russia. Whether this war is seen by US as a shortcut to this or as a long term, strategic move to achieve it is currently not very obvious. It looks like the desired outcome for Russia is to have a clear border with NATO, that is sufficiently distant from Moscow, to gain some territory in the process that is rich in natural resources and inhabited by many Russians and dare I think about it, to push the world's financial system away from USD.
- giantrobot 5y ago
  What are proper negotiations? Russia will stop shelling civilians if Ukraine cedes them territory? If they're willing to shell maternity wards now do you think they'll think twice about Holodomor 2 to pacify the territory they stole? What about a year from now when they decide they want more of Ukraine? Ukraine should negotiate then and cede more territory? Agree to be a Russian puppet state?
- xdennis 5y ago
  What we need is a compromise on the partition of Russia. Russia is the last empire in Europe. It needs to be broken down along ethnic lines like the Austrian Empire was. The remaining Russian part would be much less of a threat to world peace.

I don't know. It might mean having some proper negotiations over the future of Ukraine. It might end in partition. It might end in some other way. Right now things are headed in directions that strike me as very dangerous. I would feel a lot better if there was an attempt at negotiation.

mindslight 5y ago
Negotiation would require acceptance that one side is the West/EU, which itself would be a major escalation. As long as the situation continues to be framed as Ukraine defending on its own, then the only negotiation point is for Russia to decide to stop attacking - Ukrainians won't stop defending their country. Internationally, Russia has dug itself a deep hole with its own shortsighted actions - 1. hundreds of billions of dollars of damage and outsized civilian death that necessitates hefty war reparations to Ukraine 2. foreign investment and reconstruction that Russia simply cannot supply 3. Ukraine would be highly foolish to give up seeking NATO membership as "neutrality" would just be an invitation for Russia to rebuild its army and restart the same war in the future 4. becoming part of Russia's empire has become even less attractive with the ascendant totalitarianism.
- kavalg 5y ago
  Having part of Ukraine in EU is not impossible and I think with the current state of matters, may be accepted by many. The other option is a full NATO-Russia confrontation that will tip the scales in one or the other direction. Of course all this assumes that it doesn't escalate up to a nuclear exchange. It looks like the desired outcome for the US is to remove Putin from power and to bring democracy to Russia. Whether this war is seen by US as a shortcut to this or as a long term, strategic move to achieve it is currently not very obvious. It looks like the desired outcome for Russia is to have a clear border with NATO, that is sufficiently distant from Moscow, to gain some territory in the process that is rich in natural resources and inhabited by many Russians and dare I think about it, to push the world's financial system away from USD.
giantrobot 5y ago
What are proper negotiations? Russia will stop shelling civilians if Ukraine cedes them territory? If they're willing to shell maternity wards now do you think they'll think twice about Holodomor 2 to pacify the territory they stole? What about a year from now when they decide they want more of Ukraine? Ukraine should negotiate then and cede more territory? Agree to be a Russian puppet state?
xdennis 5y ago
What we need is a compromise on the partition of Russia. Russia is the last empire in Europe. It needs to be broken down along ethnic lines like the Austrian Empire was. The remaining Russian part would be much less of a threat to world peace.