6 ms·

Isn't US considering buying oil from Venezuela? What happened to human rights concerns in Venezuela? There was also a statement from an US official that buying

by db1234 5y ago

Isn't US considering buying oil from Venezuela? What happened to human rights concerns in Venezuela? There was also a statement from an US official that buying oil from Iran is not off the table. US forced other countries to not buy Iranian oil by imposing sanctions which I think are still in place. What I am saying is each country has its own interests. There are no morals, only interests. We may not like it that way but that's the way it is and US leads the way there.

moneywoes 5y ago
Why does the US even need to buy oil? Aren’t they a leading producer
- prostoalex 5y ago
  US produces mainly WTI but refineries are set up to process mainly Brent.
  - Fatnino 5y ago
    Better question is why? If we get WTI out of the ground here, why don't we have WTI refineries here too?
    - anamax 5y ago
      It is almost impossible to build a new refinery in the US and difficult (at best) to significantly modify the ones that we have.
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  Crude oil is not a fungible commodity. Refineries can process only certain types of crude. Also, depending on logistics (delivery of crude to refineries), a country could be simultaneously exporting crude in one region and importing it in another.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- anamax 5y ago
  The US was a net-exporter of energy in 2020 (and maybe 2019) but decided since then to become a net-importer. That said, refineries are actually somewhat specialized wrt what kind of crude they can process. The US produces some types of crude in excess of its capacity to refine said crude and has more capacity to refine some types of crude than there is domestic supply. Note also that the Canadian fossil fuel industry is somewhat intertwined with the US fossil fuel industry. The same is true wrt Mexico, albeit to a lesser extent.
manojlds 5y ago
Isn't Europe continuing to buy from Russia. I don't know why people make a big deal out of a third world emerging economy buying from its trust worthy friend.
- cute_boi 5y ago
  It is a hypocrisy, if Asian or African country buy Russian oil they are shamed and criticized vehemently, but when west does it you know ...
- pradn 5y ago
  People ascribe a different moral calculation for continuing to buy Russian oil and gas and newly buying Russian oil and gas. The end effect is the same, Russia gets money in return for its fossil fuels. But the rhetoric and the morality ascribed to each is different. Should it be? I don't know.
  - manojlds 5y ago
    If that's your argument, Russia has been India's only long time friend while the west was in a cold war with USSR. India is CONTINUING the relationship. Why did west START? Didn't Germany INCREASE dependence on Russia even after Crimea?
    - pradn 5y ago
      I'm not making a case either way. I'm stating why I think this is being raised as an issue. You are absolutely right in that moving the conversation to be about the relationships of the two countries makes a big difference in how one may feel about the ethics of the issue. People do place a great stock in loyalty and friendship, even among nations.
    - fellellor 5y ago
      If Russia is India’s “friend”, they’re the type of friend you’re better off without unless you don’t mind having your life ruined over that friendship. There are no friends here. It’s a juvenile idea. The point is that India is a poor country with big energy demands. This is a good deal. Passing it up over “moral” reasons is pretty stupid.
cplusplusfellow 5y ago
> There are no morals, only interests. Very well said. Buying from Venezuela and Iran is something that some American prefer over local production even, which further exacerbates the obvious lack of morals.
- azinman2 5y ago
  The US is producing record levels.
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    US oil production peaked in 2019, and has declined due to Covid demand drop, and the Biden administration's push away from fossil fuel. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      The last reported month is within 11% of the record level, which seems to vary by over 5% month-to-month. It's double the amount produced 10 years ago, so I think it's fair to say "record levels". The 10% reduction began in April 2020, well before Biden, and since May 2021, production has equalled or exceeded 2020 production month-to-month.
      - crisdux 5y ago
        No, it's not fair. "Record levels" means the high point, not 11% less than the high point. Why do you insist on redefining language to fit your argument?
        azinman2 5y ago
        You’re missing the forest for the trees: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...
jimbob45 5y ago
I think the idea is that we're punishing Russia for inciting war and rewarding countries that have repressed their urges to attack other countries. You would think India would greatly empathize with the plight of the Ukrainian people given that Pakistan would like to steamroll India and China would love to subjugate India diplomatically. I really don't know why India thinks this is a good idea other than that they think they could single-handedly take on both China and Pakistan without the West's help in the future.
- manojlds 5y ago
  If China attacks, Russia will be the intermediary for any trilateral talks. If Pakistan attacks, it's because of all the money that US put in to Pakistan for Afghanistan and war against terror. If it's also only Pakistan, Russia will help in China not directly getting involved. Geopolitics is complicated. Least you can do is remove some of the ignorance of historical relationships. If US is not helping Ukraine, do you think it will directly help India against China?
  - beebmam 5y ago
    Every nation is interested in preventing wars of aggression due to their potential to grow out of control and escalate to a world war, except for nations who have their own imperial ambitions
    - manojlds 5y ago
      Are you saying India is that? The country known for non alignment and no aggression in history? It's a third world country trying to survive. Everyday oil is $100+, India bleeds heavily.
- rmk 5y ago
  India empathizes with Ukraine, and is sending humanitarian assistance. But it buys 85% of its military hardware from Russia. Russia has supported it on many occasions in the past, whereas the USA once sent the USS Enterprise into Indian waters to stop India going to war with the then (East) Pakistan, where genocide was being committed. The USA was then a close ally of Pakistan. India is slowly warming to the USA and is in the quad and other security-oriented multilateral relationships but there is very well-founded distrust of the US and a general positive feeling about Russia, its most steadfast and reliable ally ever since India became independent and pursued a policy of non-alignment during the cold war.
bannedbybros 5y ago
kyrra 5y ago
They are, but it likely wouldn't be nearly enough. The US was importing ~700k barrels from Russia daily. But Venezuela was only 634k barrels daily, and all of that is already accounted for (200k of it stays in the country). Even if we get the remaining 434k barrels, that wouldn't offset our loss. And the only way that we get that other oil is if the current buyers start buying from Russia instead. This is the problem with only the US stopping oil purchases from Russia. The oil market is fungible, so buyers/sells are just going to move around, without any real impact. https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-eyes-venezuelan-oil-russia-ukraine-gas-prices-maduro-national-imports-11647195311 https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-eyes-venezuelan-oil-russi...
- pnutjam 5y ago
  It can still make a difference if the sanctioned country has to sell at a significant discount. Less profit, but the workers still have jobs.
DeWilde 5y ago
If morals and human right are an issue, buying oil from Venezuela would a major upgrade, in that regard, opposed to buying oil from gulf states.
- mc32 5y ago
  The issue against Venezuela was often founded in the confiscation of Plants and Equipment by the gov (Nationalization)... Same for Cuba (and the embargo against them) But... Well, now the West has decided unilaterally to confiscate the Yachts from Oligarchs (who are not even gov representatives, but are ascribed 'ties to Putin). It goes without saying that these guys aren't always the most moral bunch... but that still should not mean we forget about law for the sake of convenience. We even returned some hundreds of millions to the Iran regime --despite claiming it belonged to the previous legitimate government... So, it's all BS.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > The issue against Venezuela was often founded in the confiscation of Plants and Equipment Yep - you can absolutely rule with medieval institutions, abuse your citizens as you see fit, and even bomb your neighbours at will, but God forbid that you take a bit of money from US companies - then the gloves are off for good!
srvmshr 5y ago
The situation in Ukraine is unfortunate & Russia is squarely to blame. But there are other factors India has been calculating IMHO in keeping its long-term interests intact. I will add some more to the answers by <manojlds>: Tracking diplomatic relations, US has blown hot blown cold with its strategic partners time and again. Some people are old enough to remember Donald Rumsfeld flew in meet Saddam Hussein, CIA trained Bin Laden in Yemen & Pakistan was a SEATO member with a huge military & financial backing. None of it holds today. Rather the very opposite. I think that scares Indian polity. They aren't dynamic enough to see the country as foes after enjoying decades of friendship, where they rely on US framework solely. At the same time, they feel independent enough to not be toeing the diplomatic line like S Korea or Japan for continued support. The ramifications & outcry from the Indian population can be quite severe. Western friendship has always been treated with a spoon of skepticism. This creates a terrible fix for the politicians. That probably has been the premise why India was always gunning for NAM. They have wanted to position themselves between the two poles, maintaining cordiality & enough economic exchange. It gives them a sense of failsafe. Given their size, they see themselves as a regional power. But even today, they have to depend extensively on external support - on military & scientific projects, mainly. Indian polity sees it in their interest to keep their ties to Russia for these reasons. They have an oversized dependence due to all the military hardware & industrial setup going back several decades. They are gradually transitioning to French, Israeli & US technology but they are still reliant on Soviet machinery in military & heavy industries (steel, shipbuilding, plastics etc.) That factors in their decision to act somewhat of a "friend in need". EDIT: I will add in something my father, an ex-diplomat, mentioned the other day. This is chiming in the diplomatic chatter going around: Ukraine apparently never supported India's position in several UN resolutions. From not supportong WTO-related pharma patent disputes & not endorsing India's NSG membership to not providing spares for the ageing Antonov transport equipment (instead, Russia provides the franchise version), Ukraine either was passive or voted against India. Much to India's diplomatic displeasure, they also sold & equipped Pakistan Army with T-80U tanks. When this war happened the bureaucratic / diplomatic mandarins have been non-commital about doing anything significant in support. In his words, "we aren't enemies, but Ukraine isn't a favored friend either". EDIT2: I read some of the China related discussion. Frankly, with the border tussle, Russians have been non-committal so I don't think India is supporting Russia as a quid pro quo. In the event of any escalation, US would be more interested in keeping the balance of power in India's favor. Russians are reliant on Chinese consumption - and they know that to be the elephant in the room.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Lesser of two evils.
Bancakes 5y ago
>ah but what about America smug face

by db1234 5y ago

moneywoes 5y ago

Why does the US even need to buy oil? Aren’t they a leading producer

prostoalex 5y ago
US produces mainly WTI but refineries are set up to process mainly Brent.
- Fatnino 5y ago
  Better question is why? If we get WTI out of the ground here, why don't we have WTI refineries here too?
  - anamax 5y ago
    It is almost impossible to build a new refinery in the US and difficult (at best) to significantly modify the ones that we have.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
Crude oil is not a fungible commodity. Refineries can process only certain types of crude. Also, depending on logistics (delivery of crude to refineries), a country could be simultaneously exporting crude in one region and importing it in another.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
anamax 5y ago
The US was a net-exporter of energy in 2020 (and maybe 2019) but decided since then to become a net-importer. That said, refineries are actually somewhat specialized wrt what kind of crude they can process. The US produces some types of crude in excess of its capacity to refine said crude and has more capacity to refine some types of crude than there is domestic supply. Note also that the Canadian fossil fuel industry is somewhat intertwined with the US fossil fuel industry. The same is true wrt Mexico, albeit to a lesser extent.

manojlds 5y ago

Isn't Europe continuing to buy from Russia. I don't know why people make a big deal out of a third world emerging economy buying from its trust worthy friend.

cute_boi 5y ago
It is a hypocrisy, if Asian or African country buy Russian oil they are shamed and criticized vehemently, but when west does it you know ...
pradn 5y ago
People ascribe a different moral calculation for continuing to buy Russian oil and gas and newly buying Russian oil and gas. The end effect is the same, Russia gets money in return for its fossil fuels. But the rhetoric and the morality ascribed to each is different. Should it be? I don't know.
- manojlds 5y ago
  If that's your argument, Russia has been India's only long time friend while the west was in a cold war with USSR. India is CONTINUING the relationship. Why did west START? Didn't Germany INCREASE dependence on Russia even after Crimea?
  - pradn 5y ago
    I'm not making a case either way. I'm stating why I think this is being raised as an issue. You are absolutely right in that moving the conversation to be about the relationships of the two countries makes a big difference in how one may feel about the ethics of the issue. People do place a great stock in loyalty and friendship, even among nations.
  - fellellor 5y ago
    If Russia is India’s “friend”, they’re the type of friend you’re better off without unless you don’t mind having your life ruined over that friendship. There are no friends here. It’s a juvenile idea. The point is that India is a poor country with big energy demands. This is a good deal. Passing it up over “moral” reasons is pretty stupid.

cplusplusfellow 5y ago

> There are no morals, only interests. Very well said. Buying from Venezuela and Iran is something that some American prefer over local production even, which further exacerbates the obvious lack of morals.

azinman2 5y ago
The US is producing record levels.
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  US oil production peaked in 2019, and has declined due to Covid demand drop, and the Biden administration's push away from fossil fuel. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    The last reported month is within 11% of the record level, which seems to vary by over 5% month-to-month. It's double the amount produced 10 years ago, so I think it's fair to say "record levels". The 10% reduction began in April 2020, well before Biden, and since May 2021, production has equalled or exceeded 2020 production month-to-month.
    - crisdux 5y ago
      No, it's not fair. "Record levels" means the high point, not 11% less than the high point. Why do you insist on redefining language to fit your argument?
      - azinman2 5y ago
        You’re missing the forest for the trees: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...

jimbob45 5y ago

I think the idea is that we're punishing Russia for inciting war and rewarding countries that have repressed their urges to attack other countries. You would think India would greatly empathize with the plight of the Ukrainian people given that Pakistan would like to steamroll India and China would love to subjugate India diplomatically. I really don't know why India thinks this is a good idea other than that they think they could single-handedly take on both China and Pakistan without the West's help in the future.

manojlds 5y ago
If China attacks, Russia will be the intermediary for any trilateral talks. If Pakistan attacks, it's because of all the money that US put in to Pakistan for Afghanistan and war against terror. If it's also only Pakistan, Russia will help in China not directly getting involved. Geopolitics is complicated. Least you can do is remove some of the ignorance of historical relationships. If US is not helping Ukraine, do you think it will directly help India against China?
- beebmam 5y ago
  Every nation is interested in preventing wars of aggression due to their potential to grow out of control and escalate to a world war, except for nations who have their own imperial ambitions
  - manojlds 5y ago
    Are you saying India is that? The country known for non alignment and no aggression in history? It's a third world country trying to survive. Everyday oil is $100+, India bleeds heavily.
rmk 5y ago
India empathizes with Ukraine, and is sending humanitarian assistance. But it buys 85% of its military hardware from Russia. Russia has supported it on many occasions in the past, whereas the USA once sent the USS Enterprise into Indian waters to stop India going to war with the then (East) Pakistan, where genocide was being committed. The USA was then a close ally of Pakistan. India is slowly warming to the USA and is in the quad and other security-oriented multilateral relationships but there is very well-founded distrust of the US and a general positive feeling about Russia, its most steadfast and reliable ally ever since India became independent and pursued a policy of non-alignment during the cold war.

bannedbybros 5y ago

kyrra 5y ago

They are, but it likely wouldn't be nearly enough. The US was importing ~700k barrels from Russia daily. But Venezuela was only 634k barrels daily, and all of that is already accounted for (200k of it stays in the country). Even if we get the remaining 434k barrels, that wouldn't offset our loss. And the only way that we get that other oil is if the current buyers start buying from Russia instead. This is the problem with only the US stopping oil purchases from Russia. The oil market is fungible, so buyers/sells are just going to move around, without any real impact. https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-eyes-venezuelan-oil-russia-ukraine-gas-prices-maduro-national-imports-11647195311 https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-eyes-venezuelan-oil-russi...

pnutjam 5y ago
It can still make a difference if the sanctioned country has to sell at a significant discount. Less profit, but the workers still have jobs.

DeWilde 5y ago

If morals and human right are an issue, buying oil from Venezuela would a major upgrade, in that regard, opposed to buying oil from gulf states.

mc32 5y ago
The issue against Venezuela was often founded in the confiscation of Plants and Equipment by the gov (Nationalization)... Same for Cuba (and the embargo against them) But... Well, now the West has decided unilaterally to confiscate the Yachts from Oligarchs (who are not even gov representatives, but are ascribed 'ties to Putin). It goes without saying that these guys aren't always the most moral bunch... but that still should not mean we forget about law for the sake of convenience. We even returned some hundreds of millions to the Iran regime --despite claiming it belonged to the previous legitimate government... So, it's all BS.
- toyg 5y ago
  > The issue against Venezuela was often founded in the confiscation of Plants and Equipment Yep - you can absolutely rule with medieval institutions, abuse your citizens as you see fit, and even bomb your neighbours at will, but God forbid that you take a bit of money from US companies - then the gloves are off for good!

srvmshr 5y ago

The situation in Ukraine is unfortunate & Russia is squarely to blame. But there are other factors India has been calculating IMHO in keeping its long-term interests intact. I will add some more to the answers by <manojlds>: Tracking diplomatic relations, US has blown hot blown cold with its strategic partners time and again. Some people are old enough to remember Donald Rumsfeld flew in meet Saddam Hussein, CIA trained Bin Laden in Yemen & Pakistan was a SEATO member with a huge military & financial backing. None of it holds today. Rather the very opposite. I think that scares Indian polity. They aren't dynamic enough to see the country as foes after enjoying decades of friendship, where they rely on US framework solely. At the same time, they feel independent enough to not be toeing the diplomatic line like S Korea or Japan for continued support. The ramifications & outcry from the Indian population can be quite severe. Western friendship has always been treated with a spoon of skepticism. This creates a terrible fix for the politicians. That probably has been the premise why India was always gunning for NAM. They have wanted to position themselves between the two poles, maintaining cordiality & enough economic exchange. It gives them a sense of failsafe. Given their size, they see themselves as a regional power. But even today, they have to depend extensively on external support - on military & scientific projects, mainly. Indian polity sees it in their interest to keep their ties to Russia for these reasons. They have an oversized dependence due to all the military hardware & industrial setup going back several decades. They are gradually transitioning to French, Israeli & US technology but they are still reliant on Soviet machinery in military & heavy industries (steel, shipbuilding, plastics etc.) That factors in their decision to act somewhat of a "friend in need". EDIT: I will add in something my father, an ex-diplomat, mentioned the other day. This is chiming in the diplomatic chatter going around: Ukraine apparently never supported India's position in several UN resolutions. From not supportong WTO-related pharma patent disputes & not endorsing India's NSG membership to not providing spares for the ageing Antonov transport equipment (instead, Russia provides the franchise version), Ukraine either was passive or voted against India. Much to India's diplomatic displeasure, they also sold & equipped Pakistan Army with T-80U tanks. When this war happened the bureaucratic / diplomatic mandarins have been non-commital about doing anything significant in support. In his words, "we aren't enemies, but Ukraine isn't a favored friend either". EDIT2: I read some of the China related discussion. Frankly, with the border tussle, Russians have been non-committal so I don't think India is supporting Russia as a quid pro quo. In the event of any escalation, US would be more interested in keeping the balance of power in India's favor. Russians are reliant on Chinese consumption - and they know that to be the elephant in the room.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Lesser of two evils.

Bancakes 5y ago

>ah but what about America smug face