3 ms·

I hate to be "that guy" but at this point, having seen how our interactions with Nature tend to go, my gut reaction is that at some point, somehow, this is goin

I hate to be "that guy" but at this point, having seen how our interactions with Nature tend to go, my gut reaction is that at some point, somehow, this is going to be very bad. There's probably a good reason why C4 carbon fixation hasn't taken over the plant kingdom.

DennisP 5y ago
If only we had the luxury of not doing things with unknown problems, because we'd avoided the catastrophic known problems by cutting our emissions in time.
msandford 5y ago
I share your concern. I don't mind GMO things as long as there's no way for the genes to escape. But I would not be a fan of a world where these genes escape, infect all trees and then we have another great oxygenation event because nothing can break down the heavy metal trees.
- maddiehalla 5y ago
  All our current poplar trees are female and do not produce pollen, thus instilling a low fertility rate while maintaining the integrity of the tree to integrate with local ecosystems. We take an ecosystem approach to everything we do. This includes understanding the interrelationships among species in a given location as well as understanding the economics to help local land stewards thrive. With access to over 17,000 tree variations, we are focused on identifying the most helpful species for a given local area. We focus on carbon projects that create true additionality. We focus on restoring land that has been degraded or is underperforming. We are specifically interested in abandoned mine land, reclamation land, former range land or farm land. We also work with farmers to plant trees alongside agricultural crops for shade management, riparian buffers and windbreaks.
  - carapace 5y ago
    FWIW, I'm against GMO applications, not research, on first principles. I think we should wait three to five centuries at least, until we understand life systems better or have off-planet labs where, as msandford said, "there's no way for the genes to escape." However, that said, you folks sounds like you really have your act together. Have you heard of the Miyawaki Method? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Miyawaki#Method_and_conditions_for_success https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Miyawaki#Method_and_cond...
awillen 5y ago
> There's probably a good reason why C4 carbon fixation hasn't taken over the plant kingdom. Because evolution happens slowly, and on an evolutionary scale the increases in CO2 in the environment have basically just started to happen.
vaylian 5y ago
> There's probably a good reason why C4 carbon fixation hasn't taken over the plant kingdom. Simple: The efficiency of the C4 carbon fixation would be of little benefit to the plant itself. Evolution optimizes for the benefit of the gene-bearer.
- memling 5y ago
  > Simple: The efficiency of the C4 carbon fixation would be of little benefit to the plant itself. Evolution optimizes for the benefit of the gene-bearer. I don't know if this is a good example, but suppose for argument's sake that flocking behavior in migratory birds contributed to the likelihood of gene propagation. Off-the-reservation individuals wouldn't benefit from this cooperation and would therefore be unlikely to enjoy having their genes propagated. Could we posit / test for a similar selection effect in trees or other plants, in which the benefit to the individual is accrued through behaviors of the group? My first attempt at thinking about this was to consider whether trees that promote more stable weather patterns might have an easier time reproducing, but I think it's harder than this because the benefits obviously benefit other species that don't have the same kind of behaviors. All things being equal, this tends to status quo, not out-competing your neighbors.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
maddiehalla 5y ago
C4 plants evolved when CO₂ partial pressure was low and there was a higher partial pressure of oxygen in the air, which is the opposite of the trajectory we see today. Therefore, we have reduced the selection pressure on C4 plants. Rather than try to go against this evolutionary process, we have incorporated natural processes from other plants and algae to achieve the same effect of avoiding photorespiration.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Does the high metal concentration in the trees cause leeching issues at end of life? Any issues when the trees are burned?
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    If one of these trees falls in the forest, is it going to kill all of the fungi living in the soil under where it fell?
    - freemint 5y ago
      No?
- mistrial9 5y ago
  your desire for biotech patents is not involved at all ?

DennisP 5y ago

If only we had the luxury of not doing things with unknown problems, because we'd avoided the catastrophic known problems by cutting our emissions in time.

msandford 5y ago

I share your concern. I don't mind GMO things as long as there's no way for the genes to escape. But I would not be a fan of a world where these genes escape, infect all trees and then we have another great oxygenation event because nothing can break down the heavy metal trees.

maddiehalla 5y ago
All our current poplar trees are female and do not produce pollen, thus instilling a low fertility rate while maintaining the integrity of the tree to integrate with local ecosystems. We take an ecosystem approach to everything we do. This includes understanding the interrelationships among species in a given location as well as understanding the economics to help local land stewards thrive. With access to over 17,000 tree variations, we are focused on identifying the most helpful species for a given local area. We focus on carbon projects that create true additionality. We focus on restoring land that has been degraded or is underperforming. We are specifically interested in abandoned mine land, reclamation land, former range land or farm land. We also work with farmers to plant trees alongside agricultural crops for shade management, riparian buffers and windbreaks.
- carapace 5y ago
  FWIW, I'm against GMO applications, not research, on first principles. I think we should wait three to five centuries at least, until we understand life systems better or have off-planet labs where, as msandford said, "there's no way for the genes to escape." However, that said, you folks sounds like you really have your act together. Have you heard of the Miyawaki Method? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Miyawaki#Method_and_conditions_for_success https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Miyawaki#Method_and_cond...

awillen 5y ago

> There's probably a good reason why C4 carbon fixation hasn't taken over the plant kingdom. Because evolution happens slowly, and on an evolutionary scale the increases in CO2 in the environment have basically just started to happen.

vaylian 5y ago

> There's probably a good reason why C4 carbon fixation hasn't taken over the plant kingdom. Simple: The efficiency of the C4 carbon fixation would be of little benefit to the plant itself. Evolution optimizes for the benefit of the gene-bearer.

memling 5y ago
> Simple: The efficiency of the C4 carbon fixation would be of little benefit to the plant itself. Evolution optimizes for the benefit of the gene-bearer. I don't know if this is a good example, but suppose for argument's sake that flocking behavior in migratory birds contributed to the likelihood of gene propagation. Off-the-reservation individuals wouldn't benefit from this cooperation and would therefore be unlikely to enjoy having their genes propagated. Could we posit / test for a similar selection effect in trees or other plants, in which the benefit to the individual is accrued through behaviors of the group? My first attempt at thinking about this was to consider whether trees that promote more stable weather patterns might have an easier time reproducing, but I think it's harder than this because the benefits obviously benefit other species that don't have the same kind of behaviors. All things being equal, this tends to status quo, not out-competing your neighbors.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

maddiehalla 5y ago

C4 plants evolved when CO₂ partial pressure was low and there was a higher partial pressure of oxygen in the air, which is the opposite of the trajectory we see today. Therefore, we have reduced the selection pressure on C4 plants. Rather than try to go against this evolutionary process, we have incorporated natural processes from other plants and algae to achieve the same effect of avoiding photorespiration.

arcticbull 5y ago
Does the high metal concentration in the trees cause leeching issues at end of life? Any issues when the trees are burned?
- cwkoss 5y ago
  If one of these trees falls in the forest, is it going to kill all of the fungi living in the soil under where it fell?
  - freemint 5y ago
    No?
mistrial9 5y ago
your desire for biotech patents is not involved at all ?