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This looks good! I'm definitely behind efforts like this, especially regenerative CO₂ sequestration. Two questions: 1. What are the trade-offs you make (if any

This looks good! I'm definitely behind efforts like this, especially regenerative CO₂ sequestration. Two questions: 1. What are the trade-offs you make (if any)? Are the trees in any way less robust or "healthy" than "natural" trees? 2. How do your trees compare to Empress trees, which can supposedly capture 103 tons of carbon per acre per year [0]? [0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-02/we-already-have-the-world-s-most-efficient-carbon-capture-technology https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-02/we-alread...

sp332 5y ago
For one thing, Empress flowers smell very strongly and most people don't like the scent.
pstuart 5y ago
I've long been intrigued by Paulownia (empress). Nice to see others share the same thought. Unfortunately its strength in this area is a weakness for adoption because its so highly invasive: http://www.ecosystemgardening.com/paulownia-princess-tree-on-most-hated-plants-list.html http://www.ecosystemgardening.com/paulownia-princess-tree-on... Bamboo might be another option. While it can be invasive I think it's much more manageable.
- sp332 5y ago
  I think any plant with a 50% advantage in biomass per year will effectively be invasive, including the ones from this project.
  - pstuart 5y ago
    Agreed. But at least with bamboo it appears to be much easier to constrain.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  I thought there were non-invasive or less-invasive empress subtrees. I know there is one that spreads quickly and uncontrollably, but other varieties don't
rob74 5y ago
I'm not in any way related to this startup, but in my experience trees that grow faster have lower-quality (weaker, less durable, but lighter) wood than slower-growing ones - this also includes the "empress tree". To quote Wikipedia, "Paulownia grown on plantations generally has widely spaced growth rings, meaning that it is soft and of little value". So "developing" trees that "grow faster, capture more carbon, and produce more durable wood" will be an interesting challenge...
- maddiehalla 5y ago
  I think I mentioned this in my other comment but durability and grow rate increase are two different traits we are working on at Living Carbon. I agree it's near impossible to address both in one trait.
- coryrc 5y ago
  I'd buy it by nobody stocks it nearby!
maddiehalla 5y ago
Good questions! 1. We are still studying tradeoffs. Given the biochemical mechanism (how we change the trees), we are essentially increasing the amount of energy going to growth and not changing any fundamental ratios between lignin and cellulose. Think of this as similar to when humans go into ketosis :) We have seen some evidence of increased temperature resistance and wilt resistance but not enough data yet to come to any conclusions. 2. Empress trees grow very fast but there is not much of a market for their wood because it is very light. this means it is harder to get landowners to plant these trees. Poplar trees are commonly planted for environmental services like cleaning up of abandon mine lands and loblolly pines which are commonly used for saw timber. The varieties of trees we start with have been studied in the field for decades and we have access to that field trial data to start with.
- biomcgary 5y ago
  I burn wood pellets to heat my house. Wood pellets are a convenient, relatively high density energy storage system. Pellets are also carbon neutral (other than the supply chain, which, in the US, tends to be regional rather than global). I'm concerned that the metal uptake might be problematic. I assume you are engineering trees with various combinations of properties. . .
  - maddiehalla 5y ago
    We would not use any trees with metal for pellets. Because the landowners we work with grow the trees for over 25 years the type of wood produced is better for saw timber or timber that is used in building materials. it wouldn't be pellet grade wood.
    - webmaven 5y ago
      > We would not use any trees with metal for pellets. Because the landowners we work with grow the trees for over 25 years the type of wood produced is better for saw timber or timber that is used in building materials. it wouldn't be pellet grade wood. This may be a bit nitpicky, but one of the things sawmills produce is sawdust. What are the downstream effects of sawdust with higher metal content?

sp332 5y ago

For one thing, Empress flowers smell very strongly and most people don't like the scent.

pstuart 5y ago

I've long been intrigued by Paulownia (empress). Nice to see others share the same thought. Unfortunately its strength in this area is a weakness for adoption because its so highly invasive: http://www.ecosystemgardening.com/paulownia-princess-tree-on-most-hated-plants-list.html http://www.ecosystemgardening.com/paulownia-princess-tree-on... Bamboo might be another option. While it can be invasive I think it's much more manageable.

sp332 5y ago
I think any plant with a 50% advantage in biomass per year will effectively be invasive, including the ones from this project.
- pstuart 5y ago
  Agreed. But at least with bamboo it appears to be much easier to constrain.
AtlasBarfed 5y ago
I thought there were non-invasive or less-invasive empress subtrees. I know there is one that spreads quickly and uncontrollably, but other varieties don't

rob74 5y ago

I'm not in any way related to this startup, but in my experience trees that grow faster have lower-quality (weaker, less durable, but lighter) wood than slower-growing ones - this also includes the "empress tree". To quote Wikipedia, "Paulownia grown on plantations generally has widely spaced growth rings, meaning that it is soft and of little value". So "developing" trees that "grow faster, capture more carbon, and produce more durable wood" will be an interesting challenge...

maddiehalla 5y ago
I think I mentioned this in my other comment but durability and grow rate increase are two different traits we are working on at Living Carbon. I agree it's near impossible to address both in one trait.
coryrc 5y ago
I'd buy it by nobody stocks it nearby!

maddiehalla 5y ago

Good questions! 1. We are still studying tradeoffs. Given the biochemical mechanism (how we change the trees), we are essentially increasing the amount of energy going to growth and not changing any fundamental ratios between lignin and cellulose. Think of this as similar to when humans go into ketosis :) We have seen some evidence of increased temperature resistance and wilt resistance but not enough data yet to come to any conclusions. 2. Empress trees grow very fast but there is not much of a market for their wood because it is very light. this means it is harder to get landowners to plant these trees. Poplar trees are commonly planted for environmental services like cleaning up of abandon mine lands and loblolly pines which are commonly used for saw timber. The varieties of trees we start with have been studied in the field for decades and we have access to that field trial data to start with.

biomcgary 5y ago
I burn wood pellets to heat my house. Wood pellets are a convenient, relatively high density energy storage system. Pellets are also carbon neutral (other than the supply chain, which, in the US, tends to be regional rather than global). I'm concerned that the metal uptake might be problematic. I assume you are engineering trees with various combinations of properties. . .
- maddiehalla 5y ago
  We would not use any trees with metal for pellets. Because the landowners we work with grow the trees for over 25 years the type of wood produced is better for saw timber or timber that is used in building materials. it wouldn't be pellet grade wood.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > We would not use any trees with metal for pellets. Because the landowners we work with grow the trees for over 25 years the type of wood produced is better for saw timber or timber that is used in building materials. it wouldn't be pellet grade wood. This may be a bit nitpicky, but one of the things sawmills produce is sawdust. What are the downstream effects of sawdust with higher metal content?