7 ms·

> The main obstacle in learning to program for an 8-year-old is not going to be learning the concepts, which are no harder for them than anyone else I think, bu

> The main obstacle in learning to program for an 8-year-old is not going to be learning the concepts, which are no harder for them than anyone else I think, but the typing is a problem. I was already touch-typing fairly proficiently at age 8, in the 80s, and I'm visually impaired as well. I started learning to program in Applesoft BASIC shortly after I turned 8, and the typing was never a barrier. Edit: The teacher of the visually impaired who taught me to touch-type when I was 7 might have been unusually forward-thinking, but still, my experience shows what's possible. I hope the next generation of kids all learn to touch-type just as early.

Tams80 5y ago
The only thing that I've seen almost universally get kids to try to learn to touch type with enthusiasm (perhaps too much) are games. Just like how using Scratch is like (well is) playing a game. Coming at children's learning from an adult perspective often isn't that useful. They just don't think like us a lot of the time.
- mwcampbell 5y ago
  I wasn't taught through a game. But in my case, learning to touch-type was a relief from practicing my handwriting, which was tedious for me. And I got to listen to the computer speak what I typed, which I thought was cool, even if the primitive speech synthesizer couldn't pronounce "Matthew" (my name) correctly. Edit: So yeah, my anecdote is unique and probably worth nothing in this discussion.
shadowgovt 5y ago
In the '80s, every computer you could program came with a keyboard. In 2022, most computers kids use don't have keyboards anymore. Only onscreen low-speed ones. There's meat on the bones of alternatives to keyboards in programming. It may not be possible to beat the data-entry speed of a keyboard, but it's worth remembering that the "mess around" computer kids have access to these days probably doesn't have one.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  The ZX Spectrum keyboard was even worse to type on than modern on-screen ones, and plenty of kids used it just fine. So "data-entry speed of a keyboard" is highly variable in practice. (Of course, I agree that alternatives to mouse-and-keyboard input are worth exploring in all domains, including for software development.)
- mwcampbell 5y ago
  Then kids with only tablets are also at a disadvantage when learning to compose documents on a computer, which is important for many kinds of work. Maybe it's time I got my nieces and nephew Chromebooks for Christmas. By then, the youngest will be between 4 and 5 years old.

Tams80 5y ago

The only thing that I've seen almost universally get kids to try to learn to touch type with enthusiasm (perhaps too much) are games. Just like how using Scratch is like (well is) playing a game. Coming at children's learning from an adult perspective often isn't that useful. They just don't think like us a lot of the time.

mwcampbell 5y ago
I wasn't taught through a game. But in my case, learning to touch-type was a relief from practicing my handwriting, which was tedious for me. And I got to listen to the computer speak what I typed, which I thought was cool, even if the primitive speech synthesizer couldn't pronounce "Matthew" (my name) correctly. Edit: So yeah, my anecdote is unique and probably worth nothing in this discussion.

shadowgovt 5y ago

In the '80s, every computer you could program came with a keyboard. In 2022, most computers kids use don't have keyboards anymore. Only onscreen low-speed ones. There's meat on the bones of alternatives to keyboards in programming. It may not be possible to beat the data-entry speed of a keyboard, but it's worth remembering that the "mess around" computer kids have access to these days probably doesn't have one.

zozbot234 5y ago
The ZX Spectrum keyboard was even worse to type on than modern on-screen ones, and plenty of kids used it just fine. So "data-entry speed of a keyboard" is highly variable in practice. (Of course, I agree that alternatives to mouse-and-keyboard input are worth exploring in all domains, including for software development.)
mwcampbell 5y ago
Then kids with only tablets are also at a disadvantage when learning to compose documents on a computer, which is important for many kinds of work. Maybe it's time I got my nieces and nephew Chromebooks for Christmas. By then, the youngest will be between 4 and 5 years old.