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Your programming language sounds great, and very accessible. But I don't feel that you actually back up your own point in the article. What makes your tool bett

Your programming language sounds great, and very accessible. But I don't feel that you actually back up your own point in the article. What makes your tool better for children in the age range that scratch is targeting? Have you actually tested it in any way with children in that age range? I know kids who learned scratch and it's definitely "real" programming. I think you're missing the major point of scratch. The main obstacle in learning to program for an 8-year-old is not going to be learning the concepts, which are no harder for them than anyone else I think, but the typing is a problem. How many times have any of us (especially early in our programming development) gotten hung up on misspelled variable names? There's no inherent advantage to typing every keyword vs dragging blocks. Additionally, the scratch ecosystem is designed around creating games and animations. As it turns out, young kids like games and animations, and it's a very rewarding experience to make something that you actually want to share with your friends and family. Even if your language is a better choice for a child that age, which I kind of doubt it is, it doesn't matter if the kids aren't interested in what they're making. Again, I think your language looks great. Just not sure it's good for the same target market as scratch.

martyalain 5y ago
I agree with you, it's a little "provocative", but you could have a look to this page: http://lambdaway.free.fr/lambdaspeech/?view=teaching http://lambdaway.free.fr/lambdaspeech/?view=teaching
mwcampbell 5y ago
> The main obstacle in learning to program for an 8-year-old is not going to be learning the concepts, which are no harder for them than anyone else I think, but the typing is a problem. I was already touch-typing fairly proficiently at age 8, in the 80s, and I'm visually impaired as well. I started learning to program in Applesoft BASIC shortly after I turned 8, and the typing was never a barrier. Edit: The teacher of the visually impaired who taught me to touch-type when I was 7 might have been unusually forward-thinking, but still, my experience shows what's possible. I hope the next generation of kids all learn to touch-type just as early.
- Tams80 5y ago
  The only thing that I've seen almost universally get kids to try to learn to touch type with enthusiasm (perhaps too much) are games. Just like how using Scratch is like (well is) playing a game. Coming at children's learning from an adult perspective often isn't that useful. They just don't think like us a lot of the time.
  - mwcampbell 5y ago
    I wasn't taught through a game. But in my case, learning to touch-type was a relief from practicing my handwriting, which was tedious for me. And I got to listen to the computer speak what I typed, which I thought was cool, even if the primitive speech synthesizer couldn't pronounce "Matthew" (my name) correctly. Edit: So yeah, my anecdote is unique and probably worth nothing in this discussion.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  In the '80s, every computer you could program came with a keyboard. In 2022, most computers kids use don't have keyboards anymore. Only onscreen low-speed ones. There's meat on the bones of alternatives to keyboards in programming. It may not be possible to beat the data-entry speed of a keyboard, but it's worth remembering that the "mess around" computer kids have access to these days probably doesn't have one.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    The ZX Spectrum keyboard was even worse to type on than modern on-screen ones, and plenty of kids used it just fine. So "data-entry speed of a keyboard" is highly variable in practice. (Of course, I agree that alternatives to mouse-and-keyboard input are worth exploring in all domains, including for software development.)
  - mwcampbell 5y ago
    Then kids with only tablets are also at a disadvantage when learning to compose documents on a computer, which is important for many kinds of work. Maybe it's time I got my nieces and nephew Chromebooks for Christmas. By then, the youngest will be between 4 and 5 years old.

martyalain 5y ago

I agree with you, it's a little "provocative", but you could have a look to this page: http://lambdaway.free.fr/lambdaspeech/?view=teaching http://lambdaway.free.fr/lambdaspeech/?view=teaching

mwcampbell 5y ago

> The main obstacle in learning to program for an 8-year-old is not going to be learning the concepts, which are no harder for them than anyone else I think, but the typing is a problem. I was already touch-typing fairly proficiently at age 8, in the 80s, and I'm visually impaired as well. I started learning to program in Applesoft BASIC shortly after I turned 8, and the typing was never a barrier. Edit: The teacher of the visually impaired who taught me to touch-type when I was 7 might have been unusually forward-thinking, but still, my experience shows what's possible. I hope the next generation of kids all learn to touch-type just as early.

Tams80 5y ago
The only thing that I've seen almost universally get kids to try to learn to touch type with enthusiasm (perhaps too much) are games. Just like how using Scratch is like (well is) playing a game. Coming at children's learning from an adult perspective often isn't that useful. They just don't think like us a lot of the time.
- mwcampbell 5y ago
  I wasn't taught through a game. But in my case, learning to touch-type was a relief from practicing my handwriting, which was tedious for me. And I got to listen to the computer speak what I typed, which I thought was cool, even if the primitive speech synthesizer couldn't pronounce "Matthew" (my name) correctly. Edit: So yeah, my anecdote is unique and probably worth nothing in this discussion.
shadowgovt 5y ago
In the '80s, every computer you could program came with a keyboard. In 2022, most computers kids use don't have keyboards anymore. Only onscreen low-speed ones. There's meat on the bones of alternatives to keyboards in programming. It may not be possible to beat the data-entry speed of a keyboard, but it's worth remembering that the "mess around" computer kids have access to these days probably doesn't have one.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  The ZX Spectrum keyboard was even worse to type on than modern on-screen ones, and plenty of kids used it just fine. So "data-entry speed of a keyboard" is highly variable in practice. (Of course, I agree that alternatives to mouse-and-keyboard input are worth exploring in all domains, including for software development.)
- mwcampbell 5y ago
  Then kids with only tablets are also at a disadvantage when learning to compose documents on a computer, which is important for many kinds of work. Maybe it's time I got my nieces and nephew Chromebooks for Christmas. By then, the youngest will be between 4 and 5 years old.