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"It's different when we do it"? Why don't you agree? Americans occupied a sovereign country, started a war there... why no sanctions against american oligarchs

"It's different when we do it"? Why don't you agree? Americans occupied a sovereign country, started a war there... why no sanctions against american oligarchs? And if not, why sanctions now against the russians?

scotty79 5y ago
It's different when it's different. Full scale invasion with intent to annex with nearly complete global opposition is different from America going around the world to kill people at their whim, very often with support and acceptance of other nations and occasionally with support of large groups of people in countries America messes up. Putin invaded two countries and parts of Ukraine already in a predictible pattern. And next ones in line are NATO countries. I guess enough's enough to take action. Serbs in Yougoslavia tried to do racial cleansing. Ukrainians never had such ideas. By drawing such overstretched parallels you are no different than Putin supporting Russian now, nazi German after the WWII or Serb after they were stopped.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Oh yes, "large groups" of bombed afghanis wanted to be bombed by amercans? And if UK and EU supported putin in ukraine (to make gas cheaper in europe for example), than the occupation of ukraine would be a good thing? So it doesn't matter that you destroy a country and kill a huge number of people, if your friends help or atleast "morally" support you with that? Putin has a russian minority in ukraine, that was being attacked for a long time now, by groups like Azov (who were globally marker as neonazis just a few months ago, by most mainstream media), and which are now a part of national guard (for the last ~7 years). You cannot call it racial clensing if all the people mentioned are white (serbs, albanians, russians, ukranians), but considering the amount of brown people the americans have killed in the last few decades, it makes you wonder.
  - scotty79 5y ago
    Why does the skin color have anything to do with whether something is racial cleansing or not? Skin color is not a race. When the Tutsi were massacred by Hutus wasn't this a racial cleansing because they both have roughly same amount of melanine in their skin? Are you seriously trying to justify what is happening right now in the Ukraine by existance of small nationalistic groups not condemned by the Ukrainian government? Anything that this fringe nazi group did, Russian soldiers are doing on a country wide scale as we speak. And yes. Approval of parts of invaded population matters. That's one of the reasons world didn't react strongly to annexation of Crimea. And large groups of Afghanis were in favor of US bombing Taliban. And also yes. Allies matter. Even the moral allies. And sure, you can imagine a world in which EU and UK support Putin in the invasion of Ukraine for entirely selfish reasons with Ukraine being as innocent as it really is. It wouldn't be good then. But if Ukraine built death camps for their Russian population. Allying with Putin to put a stop to that would be good. However we do not live in any of those worlds. In ours Ukraine just wants to be a country and a nation they were always striving to be, despite being repeatedly crushed by the Russian heel and murdered by millions. And the west is supporting that ambition despite the great cost to its economy that is the result of cutting outselves off from Russia exports. We are doing it for both moral and selfish reasons. Because people and their actions are nuanced like that It's never as simple as "it's ok when we do it". I'm very sorry that you are struggling with this world to the point of turning you into a tube for clear aggressors.
    - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
      > Are you seriously trying to justify what is happening right now in the Ukraine by existance of small nationalistic groups not condemned by the Ukrainian government? Anything that this fringe nazi group did, Russian soldiers are doing on a country wide scale as we speak. I mean... that "small nationalistic group" became a part of the official national guard, so it has support from the government itself. What exactly did eg. Afghanistan do, that attacking it was "good"? > And also yes. Allies matter. Even the moral allies. Oh yes... if your friends say it's ok to bomb some random country, that makes it OK? > But if Ukraine built death camps for their Russian population. Allying with Putin to put a stop to that would be good. Afghanistan had death camps? Yugoslavia did? Iraq? Lybia? > However we do not live in any of those worlds. In ours Ukraine just wants to be a country and a nation they were always striving to be, despite being repeatedly crushed by the Russian heel and murdered by millions. And the west is supporting that ambition despite the great cost to its economy that is the result of cutting outselves off from Russia exports. We are doing it for both moral and selfish reasons. Because people and their actions are nuanced like that Yes, so did every other middle eastern country strive to be a normal, peaceful country... sadly most of them have been attacked by americans, some more than once. America had no real reason to attack eg. afghanistan, but they did. Because you find americans to be allies/friends, you support them at that, even though they basically destroyed the country in the same way as putin is doing now. And same for many middle eastern, south american etc. countries, that were attacked by americans. Putin is atleast using the same excuse america used when they attacked yugoslavia. America couldn't even plant "weapons of mass destruction" in the second iraq war, but that faked excuse was enough to attack a sovereign country. America has been destroying countries for decades now, for same egoistic reasons putin has now. They have destroyed many buildings, killed many people, army and civillian, children and old people, destroyed infrastructure, etc., and the destroyed/killed numbers are a still lot higher than russias, even with this war now. I have no idea, how lying about weapons of mass destruction can be a good reason for you, to attack a country on the other end of the world, and than act as if you're better than putin.

scotty79 5y ago

It's different when it's different. Full scale invasion with intent to annex with nearly complete global opposition is different from America going around the world to kill people at their whim, very often with support and acceptance of other nations and occasionally with support of large groups of people in countries America messes up. Putin invaded two countries and parts of Ukraine already in a predictible pattern. And next ones in line are NATO countries. I guess enough's enough to take action. Serbs in Yougoslavia tried to do racial cleansing. Ukrainians never had such ideas. By drawing such overstretched parallels you are no different than Putin supporting Russian now, nazi German after the WWII or Serb after they were stopped.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Oh yes, "large groups" of bombed afghanis wanted to be bombed by amercans? And if UK and EU supported putin in ukraine (to make gas cheaper in europe for example), than the occupation of ukraine would be a good thing? So it doesn't matter that you destroy a country and kill a huge number of people, if your friends help or atleast "morally" support you with that? Putin has a russian minority in ukraine, that was being attacked for a long time now, by groups like Azov (who were globally marker as neonazis just a few months ago, by most mainstream media), and which are now a part of national guard (for the last ~7 years). You cannot call it racial clensing if all the people mentioned are white (serbs, albanians, russians, ukranians), but considering the amount of brown people the americans have killed in the last few decades, it makes you wonder.
- scotty79 5y ago
  Why does the skin color have anything to do with whether something is racial cleansing or not? Skin color is not a race. When the Tutsi were massacred by Hutus wasn't this a racial cleansing because they both have roughly same amount of melanine in their skin? Are you seriously trying to justify what is happening right now in the Ukraine by existance of small nationalistic groups not condemned by the Ukrainian government? Anything that this fringe nazi group did, Russian soldiers are doing on a country wide scale as we speak. And yes. Approval of parts of invaded population matters. That's one of the reasons world didn't react strongly to annexation of Crimea. And large groups of Afghanis were in favor of US bombing Taliban. And also yes. Allies matter. Even the moral allies. And sure, you can imagine a world in which EU and UK support Putin in the invasion of Ukraine for entirely selfish reasons with Ukraine being as innocent as it really is. It wouldn't be good then. But if Ukraine built death camps for their Russian population. Allying with Putin to put a stop to that would be good. However we do not live in any of those worlds. In ours Ukraine just wants to be a country and a nation they were always striving to be, despite being repeatedly crushed by the Russian heel and murdered by millions. And the west is supporting that ambition despite the great cost to its economy that is the result of cutting outselves off from Russia exports. We are doing it for both moral and selfish reasons. Because people and their actions are nuanced like that It's never as simple as "it's ok when we do it". I'm very sorry that you are struggling with this world to the point of turning you into a tube for clear aggressors.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    > Are you seriously trying to justify what is happening right now in the Ukraine by existance of small nationalistic groups not condemned by the Ukrainian government? Anything that this fringe nazi group did, Russian soldiers are doing on a country wide scale as we speak. I mean... that "small nationalistic group" became a part of the official national guard, so it has support from the government itself. What exactly did eg. Afghanistan do, that attacking it was "good"? > And also yes. Allies matter. Even the moral allies. Oh yes... if your friends say it's ok to bomb some random country, that makes it OK? > But if Ukraine built death camps for their Russian population. Allying with Putin to put a stop to that would be good. Afghanistan had death camps? Yugoslavia did? Iraq? Lybia? > However we do not live in any of those worlds. In ours Ukraine just wants to be a country and a nation they were always striving to be, despite being repeatedly crushed by the Russian heel and murdered by millions. And the west is supporting that ambition despite the great cost to its economy that is the result of cutting outselves off from Russia exports. We are doing it for both moral and selfish reasons. Because people and their actions are nuanced like that Yes, so did every other middle eastern country strive to be a normal, peaceful country... sadly most of them have been attacked by americans, some more than once. America had no real reason to attack eg. afghanistan, but they did. Because you find americans to be allies/friends, you support them at that, even though they basically destroyed the country in the same way as putin is doing now. And same for many middle eastern, south american etc. countries, that were attacked by americans. Putin is atleast using the same excuse america used when they attacked yugoslavia. America couldn't even plant "weapons of mass destruction" in the second iraq war, but that faked excuse was enough to attack a sovereign country. America has been destroying countries for decades now, for same egoistic reasons putin has now. They have destroyed many buildings, killed many people, army and civillian, children and old people, destroyed infrastructure, etc., and the destroyed/killed numbers are a still lot higher than russias, even with this war now. I have no idea, how lying about weapons of mass destruction can be a good reason for you, to attack a country on the other end of the world, and than act as if you're better than putin.