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> i don't think there are any places around the world where owning a car is cheaper than paying for public transit ( with the caveat that depending on how you m

by CPLX 5y ago

> i don't think there are any places around the world where owning a car is cheaper than paying for public transit ( with the caveat that depending on how you measure the time spent could alter that) That's the world's biggest caveat. Investment in a modest car that stops you from spending 3 hours each way commuting over 4 separate bus routes from exurban home to exurban job is about as high a return on money as you're ever going to see. Not to mention grocery shopping kids and whatever else. There are painfully few places in the U.S. where this isn't true. I prefer your model and I live in one of those places (Brooklyn) but let's be honest here about how the world actually works.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>Investment in a modest car that stops you from spending 3 hours each way commuting over 4 separate bus routes from exurban home to exurban job is about as high a return on money as you're ever going to see. I know your example is exaggerated but even so making decisions about where to live and work like that is on a parallel with making poor decisions about your finances.
- shigawire 5y ago
  Many people have circumstances that don't allow them to choose the exact place they live. Also living in less desirable areas often has a lower cost of living - offsetting the cost of a car.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    It's definitely a trade off, in general the further out you are the bigger house you can buy. I strongly suspect people don't make the right tradeoff. The emotional draw of the big house overwhelms any thoughts about the long and expensive commute.
- tharne 5y ago
  > I know your example is exaggerated but even so making decisions about where to live and work like that is on a parallel with making poor decisions about your finances. Except for the fact that non-terrible housing in U.S. cities comes at a premium, and in the U.S. the majority of jobs are now in the suburbs, not the cities.
- CPLX 5y ago
  Chances are pretty high that living further from the city with a car is more cost effective than living in a city near transit with no car for a lot of people and jobs. That, of course, is why people do it. I wish it wasn't true, I wish things were like Switzerland where every remote mountain town still has fast and effective connections to the national transit system. But they aren't, this is America.
- jjav 5y ago
  > I know your example is exaggerated but even so making decisions about where to live and work like that is on a parallel with making poor decisions about your finances. The example isn't exaggerated at all. Unless you happen to live on a straight bus line to work, it's going to add many hours to take a bus downtown and then out to the office. Office locations come and go, a house is for the long haul. You're not going to sell and move houses every time you chance jobs.
tharne 5y ago
> That's the world's biggest caveat. Exactly. Not having a car is only a money saver if you place next to zero value on your time and what you can do with it. If I switched to taking public transit to work, the additional childcare costs alone from the increased hours I'd be outside of the house would likely negate any savings I might have otherwise achieved.
- hgomersall 5y ago
  Often on public transport, you can usefully do far more than you can driving, so it's not entirely wasted. I used to joke I was most productive on a train and so should set up my office on one. Similarly for active transport, you get free exercise.

by CPLX 5y ago

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

>Investment in a modest car that stops you from spending 3 hours each way commuting over 4 separate bus routes from exurban home to exurban job is about as high a return on money as you're ever going to see. I know your example is exaggerated but even so making decisions about where to live and work like that is on a parallel with making poor decisions about your finances.

shigawire 5y ago
Many people have circumstances that don't allow them to choose the exact place they live. Also living in less desirable areas often has a lower cost of living - offsetting the cost of a car.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  It's definitely a trade off, in general the further out you are the bigger house you can buy. I strongly suspect people don't make the right tradeoff. The emotional draw of the big house overwhelms any thoughts about the long and expensive commute.
tharne 5y ago
> I know your example is exaggerated but even so making decisions about where to live and work like that is on a parallel with making poor decisions about your finances. Except for the fact that non-terrible housing in U.S. cities comes at a premium, and in the U.S. the majority of jobs are now in the suburbs, not the cities.
CPLX 5y ago
Chances are pretty high that living further from the city with a car is more cost effective than living in a city near transit with no car for a lot of people and jobs. That, of course, is why people do it. I wish it wasn't true, I wish things were like Switzerland where every remote mountain town still has fast and effective connections to the national transit system. But they aren't, this is America.
jjav 5y ago
> I know your example is exaggerated but even so making decisions about where to live and work like that is on a parallel with making poor decisions about your finances. The example isn't exaggerated at all. Unless you happen to live on a straight bus line to work, it's going to add many hours to take a bus downtown and then out to the office. Office locations come and go, a house is for the long haul. You're not going to sell and move houses every time you chance jobs.

tharne 5y ago

> That's the world's biggest caveat. Exactly. Not having a car is only a money saver if you place next to zero value on your time and what you can do with it. If I switched to taking public transit to work, the additional childcare costs alone from the increased hours I'd be outside of the house would likely negate any savings I might have otherwise achieved.

hgomersall 5y ago
Often on public transport, you can usefully do far more than you can driving, so it's not entirely wasted. I used to joke I was most productive on a train and so should set up my office on one. Similarly for active transport, you get free exercise.