4 ms·

The song of plain-tailed wrens is fascinating. Male and female birds perform a high-tempo duet where it's hard to tell it is two birds doing the singing. https:

The song of plain-tailed wrens is fascinating. Male and female birds perform a high-tempo duet where it's hard to tell it is two birds doing the singing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3GprtBhekA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3GprtBhekA (We discuss songbirds and the importance of sequence building/remembering for language in our recent book. Here's a review: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/ogi-ogas/journey-of-the-mind/ https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/ogi-ogas/journey-... )

circlefavshape 5y ago
Any progress in establish whether the song is, in fact, language?
- ChaitanyaSai 5y ago
  ML techniques are leading to some interesting work in determining this. Here's one such example https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008820 https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/jo... Female zebra finches do not sing, only males do. I'd imagine that if bird song is high on communication, it would be seen in both sexes (and there are song birds where females sing, but not studied as much as far as I know.) tldr: still unclear, but new techniques give us hope we can answer
  - ericbarrett 5y ago
    I wouldn't be so quick to write off birdsong as speech based on this one species—given the dramatic variability in form, behavior, and habitat across the animal kingdom, a particular family of birds where the males don't "talk" wouldn't surprise me at all.
    - ChaitanyaSai 5y ago
      Absolutely. Agree there's a lot of variability. Only pointing out that in species where only males or only females croon, it may be unlikely there is broadspectrum communication happening.
- xoserr 5y ago
  I remember walking early morning last summer, listening to the birds and thinking how absurd it is to believe this isn't a type of language. I guess it would depend on what is considered the minimum constraints to be considered a language.

circlefavshape 5y ago

Any progress in establish whether the song is, in fact, language?

ChaitanyaSai 5y ago
ML techniques are leading to some interesting work in determining this. Here's one such example https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008820 https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/jo... Female zebra finches do not sing, only males do. I'd imagine that if bird song is high on communication, it would be seen in both sexes (and there are song birds where females sing, but not studied as much as far as I know.) tldr: still unclear, but new techniques give us hope we can answer
- ericbarrett 5y ago
  I wouldn't be so quick to write off birdsong as speech based on this one species—given the dramatic variability in form, behavior, and habitat across the animal kingdom, a particular family of birds where the males don't "talk" wouldn't surprise me at all.
  - ChaitanyaSai 5y ago
    Absolutely. Agree there's a lot of variability. Only pointing out that in species where only males or only females croon, it may be unlikely there is broadspectrum communication happening.
xoserr 5y ago
I remember walking early morning last summer, listening to the birds and thinking how absurd it is to believe this isn't a type of language. I guess it would depend on what is considered the minimum constraints to be considered a language.