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Has there ever been a time in the last 100 years when this kind of model has been useful. I understand the attraction, but I can't imagine how we could end up i

Has there ever been a time in the last 100 years when this kind of model has been useful. I understand the attraction, but I can't imagine how we could end up in the kind of situation where what you describe would be useful, without say total nucular war, at which point what you describe isn't enough.

fortylove 5y ago
I mean, it might be useful in Ukraine right now.
- darkwater 5y ago
  I don't think it's useful if in the threat model there is also the risk to get a misplaced missile on your house. Yeah you can defend against some poor guy/group of guys looking for food/things, but that's about it.
  - fortylove 5y ago
    To be fair though, a missile on your house isn't exactly the only threat in the model right now in Ukraine.
    - darkwater 5y ago
      Indeed it isn't, but it's plausible enough to make that other plan useless anyway.
- kergonath 5y ago
  It does not protect you from being bombed to oblivion, or summarily shot by anybody with an ak-47 jealous of whatever you have, or raided by a military looking for food or entertainment, or expropriated in the unstable years ahead. It might help if things don’t go too pear shaped, but this kind of event (a foreign invasion by a military with no regards for civilians) is basically game over regardless of your situation. The best outcome is you survive and rebuild.
  - reitanqild 5y ago
    If anything, Ukraine shows that civilization doesn't necessarily immediately collapse. Despite the madness the only thing I learn about looting from Ukraine is: - civilian would-be looters still getting punished - Russian soldiers are looting i.e. when your rations expired you get desperate and since the Russian army is armed and know they are an utter disgrace anyway this happens.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      > If anything, Ukraine shows that civilization doesn't necessarily immediately collapse. It’s been 20 days. I’d refrain from being overly optimistic just now. More likely than a full civilisation collapse is a return to feudal tribalism as in Afghanistan and Lybia, which is not very good either.
CodeGlitch 5y ago
Yes of course there has. Take the UK during WW2 for example, there was this campaign: https://dig-for-victory.org.uk/ https://dig-for-victory.org.uk/

fortylove 5y ago

I mean, it might be useful in Ukraine right now.

darkwater 5y ago
I don't think it's useful if in the threat model there is also the risk to get a misplaced missile on your house. Yeah you can defend against some poor guy/group of guys looking for food/things, but that's about it.
- fortylove 5y ago
  To be fair though, a missile on your house isn't exactly the only threat in the model right now in Ukraine.
  - darkwater 5y ago
    Indeed it isn't, but it's plausible enough to make that other plan useless anyway.
kergonath 5y ago
It does not protect you from being bombed to oblivion, or summarily shot by anybody with an ak-47 jealous of whatever you have, or raided by a military looking for food or entertainment, or expropriated in the unstable years ahead. It might help if things don’t go too pear shaped, but this kind of event (a foreign invasion by a military with no regards for civilians) is basically game over regardless of your situation. The best outcome is you survive and rebuild.
- reitanqild 5y ago
  If anything, Ukraine shows that civilization doesn't necessarily immediately collapse. Despite the madness the only thing I learn about looting from Ukraine is: - civilian would-be looters still getting punished - Russian soldiers are looting i.e. when your rations expired you get desperate and since the Russian army is armed and know they are an utter disgrace anyway this happens.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    > If anything, Ukraine shows that civilization doesn't necessarily immediately collapse. It’s been 20 days. I’d refrain from being overly optimistic just now. More likely than a full civilisation collapse is a return to feudal tribalism as in Afghanistan and Lybia, which is not very good either.

CodeGlitch 5y ago

Yes of course there has. Take the UK during WW2 for example, there was this campaign: https://dig-for-victory.org.uk/ https://dig-for-victory.org.uk/