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>thus able to hide in cities, thus making it hard for RAF to strike them (the Russian forces have enough firepower to level cities to the ground, but they have

by trhway 5y ago

>thus able to hide in cities, thus making it hard for RAF to strike them (the Russian forces have enough firepower to level cities to the ground, but they have orders to minimize damage if possible). that is pure Russian propaganda. Most of the videos of destroyed armor in cities is Russian armor - i.e. it is Russian armor hides in cities (yet it doesn't help them against Molotov cocktails and RPG and high-precision strikes https://youtu.be/D5WoCUqNWIs?t=13 https://youtu.be/D5WoCUqNWIs?t=13). Russian airforce and artillery indiscriminately bomb and shell Ukrainian cities using unguided bombs and unguided missiles (from "Grad" and "Smerch" systems), and among the huge amount of videos of Ukrainian cities destruction by Russians there is no videos with Ukrainian armor inside destruction - ie. Russians attack residential areas without any Ukrainian hardware there. On March 5 Ukrainians shot down such a Su-34 when it was bombing Chernigov and captured the pilot. The pilot confessed to the order of bombing the city (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkszHkNoQNo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkszHkNoQNo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWrxX_gpNjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWrxX_gpNjM). That pilot has been doing similar unguided bombing of Aleppo 6 years ago (https://www.unian.net/war/bombil-mirnyy-gorod-letchika-so-sbitogo-v-chernigove-samoleta-rf-doprosili-video-novosti-donbassa-11730376.html https://www.unian.net/war/bombil-mirnyy-gorod-letchika-so-sb...) for which he was celebrated by Putin and Assad. Russian bombing of cities is done to force Ukrainians out. That is ethnical cleansing, a part of the announced by Putin destruction of Ukrainian ethnical and national identity. >Air supremacy is already achieved (almost all Ukrainian war planes and strike drones have been shot down), so it does not make much sense to patrol the air space too much. that just doesn't make sense, especially given how many Russian ground hardware is being lost to drone fire and to drone guided fire.

fuoqi 5y ago
- baud147258 5y ago
  > artillery being stationed in school yards well, it's not the worst location, since I guess schools are closed due to the conflict and thus empty of children
- trhway 5y ago
  > If you want to see what the Russian forces are capable of on the city-leveling front, simply watch footage from the second Chechen war and compare it with big Ukrainian cities today (preferably shot by simple people, not media outlets). Grozny wasn't destroyed in one day. It took 2 wars to achieve that. There is still less than 3 weeks of Ukrainian war, and i'd say Russian destruction speed of Ukrainian cities beats the Chechen war - not surprisingly as Russia uses much more hardware for Ukraine cities destruction. If anything looks like Russia is going at it at the maximum speed it can with the available hardware (and giving the current war failure Putin would have brought the additional hardware if he could without leaving naked the rest of the country - there is a reason he is asking China for the hardware help). >I will not comment on your blatant propaganda piece. There is enough of footage of Ukrainian armored forces hiding near high raise buildings, "territorial defenses" assembling in schools and hospitals, and artillery being stationed in school yards. Still, what Russia can't show is footage of actual strike on city civilians with a valid military target in the strike zone while there are lot of footage of Russian strikes on city civilians without a valid military target in the strike zone. Anyway, Ukrainians have got to defend their cities. By your and German Nazi logic the defenders of Stalingrad are guilty of destruction of Stalingrad.
- actionfromafar 5y ago
  It has only been a couple of weeks yet. We will see how much will be left of Mariupol and other surrounded cities.
- mrighele 5y ago
  > I think you significantly overestimate how many in practice the Russian forces lose to drones. Note that the parent said not only drone fire, but also "drone guided fire". With help from drones artillery can be quite effective [1]. The more limited firepower of drones is used instead for more "surgical" tasks, like targeting artillery command posts [2], or supply behind the front line (seemingly, they are small enough that they are hard to target by Russian air defense) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icSJPqkzupI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icSJPqkzupI [2] https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1503162011076919298 https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/150316201107691929...
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
Are you sure it is not in turn Ukrainian propaganda when they claim the opposite? We only get to see the Ukrainian version of things. I also don't think enemy tanks are the only military reasons for bombing something. Obviously there never is a "clean" war where only military is being hit with surgical strikes. Armies always promise that (like the US did in its invasions), but usually don't deliver.
- astrange 5y ago
  We're mainly seeing civilian reports on social media, not government reports. Oryx only posts multiple visual confirmed losses on either side.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    My impression is that we also get daily reports by Zelenskyy himself.
    - astrange 5y ago
      Sure they're available, but you don't have to watch them. I only see his daily extremely cool quote about needing more ammo and such. The Ukrainian MoD does release estimates of Russian losses, and they're probably fluffed 2-3x but not more than that. I think part of their strategy of appearing like a modern Western country involves actually seeming truthful unlike Russia/China.
- trhway 5y ago
  I watch the Russian TV too. They could have shown say an Ukrainian tank destroyed while hiding in the children sandbox or something like this. Yet, no, they can't show anything meaningful despite also having video cameras and supposedly controlling the airspace. I already shown an example of the crap they show https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30669531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30669531 - their celebrated high precision missiles being just dumb unguided bombs of the WWII period, and they lie right into your face about it.
glogla 5y ago
> that is pure Russian propaganda Looking at comment history, so is most of what the account posts.
baud147258 5y ago
I'd take anything coming from captured soldiers with a big grain of salt, as they could be talking under duress. Though in that case it's clear that Russians are bombing Ukrainian cities.

by trhway 5y ago

fuoqi 5y ago

baud147258 5y ago
> artillery being stationed in school yards well, it's not the worst location, since I guess schools are closed due to the conflict and thus empty of children
trhway 5y ago
> If you want to see what the Russian forces are capable of on the city-leveling front, simply watch footage from the second Chechen war and compare it with big Ukrainian cities today (preferably shot by simple people, not media outlets). Grozny wasn't destroyed in one day. It took 2 wars to achieve that. There is still less than 3 weeks of Ukrainian war, and i'd say Russian destruction speed of Ukrainian cities beats the Chechen war - not surprisingly as Russia uses much more hardware for Ukraine cities destruction. If anything looks like Russia is going at it at the maximum speed it can with the available hardware (and giving the current war failure Putin would have brought the additional hardware if he could without leaving naked the rest of the country - there is a reason he is asking China for the hardware help). >I will not comment on your blatant propaganda piece. There is enough of footage of Ukrainian armored forces hiding near high raise buildings, "territorial defenses" assembling in schools and hospitals, and artillery being stationed in school yards. Still, what Russia can't show is footage of actual strike on city civilians with a valid military target in the strike zone while there are lot of footage of Russian strikes on city civilians without a valid military target in the strike zone. Anyway, Ukrainians have got to defend their cities. By your and German Nazi logic the defenders of Stalingrad are guilty of destruction of Stalingrad.
actionfromafar 5y ago
It has only been a couple of weeks yet. We will see how much will be left of Mariupol and other surrounded cities.
mrighele 5y ago
> I think you significantly overestimate how many in practice the Russian forces lose to drones. Note that the parent said not only drone fire, but also "drone guided fire". With help from drones artillery can be quite effective [1]. The more limited firepower of drones is used instead for more "surgical" tasks, like targeting artillery command posts [2], or supply behind the front line (seemingly, they are small enough that they are hard to target by Russian air defense) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icSJPqkzupI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icSJPqkzupI [2] https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1503162011076919298 https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/150316201107691929...

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

Are you sure it is not in turn Ukrainian propaganda when they claim the opposite? We only get to see the Ukrainian version of things. I also don't think enemy tanks are the only military reasons for bombing something. Obviously there never is a "clean" war where only military is being hit with surgical strikes. Armies always promise that (like the US did in its invasions), but usually don't deliver.

astrange 5y ago
We're mainly seeing civilian reports on social media, not government reports. Oryx only posts multiple visual confirmed losses on either side.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  My impression is that we also get daily reports by Zelenskyy himself.
  - astrange 5y ago
    Sure they're available, but you don't have to watch them. I only see his daily extremely cool quote about needing more ammo and such. The Ukrainian MoD does release estimates of Russian losses, and they're probably fluffed 2-3x but not more than that. I think part of their strategy of appearing like a modern Western country involves actually seeming truthful unlike Russia/China.
trhway 5y ago
I watch the Russian TV too. They could have shown say an Ukrainian tank destroyed while hiding in the children sandbox or something like this. Yet, no, they can't show anything meaningful despite also having video cameras and supposedly controlling the airspace. I already shown an example of the crap they show https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30669531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30669531 - their celebrated high precision missiles being just dumb unguided bombs of the WWII period, and they lie right into your face about it.

glogla 5y ago

> that is pure Russian propaganda Looking at comment history, so is most of what the account posts.

baud147258 5y ago

I'd take anything coming from captured soldiers with a big grain of salt, as they could be talking under duress. Though in that case it's clear that Russians are bombing Ukrainian cities.