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> added unlimited paid leave Make sure to use at least 20 days a year Take a whole week off per quarter and set that expectation and the Christmas to New Yea

> added unlimited paid leave Make sure to use at least 20 days a year Take a whole week off per quarter and set that expectation and the Christmas to New Years time doesnt count so double it in Q4

Fiahil 5y ago
Sounds low. Make it seven weeks. That's what most of us get in France.
- shoo 5y ago
  Why do you think that is? Is the balance of power in France tipped in favour of labour rather than capital? Or is the arrangement in France fairly typical for European countries, and it is countries like the US that are weird exceptions?
  - borski 5y ago
    The US tends to be one of the only countries literally obsessed with worker productivity. Many other countries value worker happiness over worker productivity, generally speaking, partially because of a social safety net.
  - sirwhinesalot 5y ago
    I think 4 weeks is bare minimum in Europe, 5 common, 6 or close to 6 pretty often (my case). I guess in some places it goes to 7.
- saberience 5y ago
  It's why so few companies want to invest in France and things like Activision Blizzard closing all their French offices. And of course, the radically lower salaries there.
  - Fiahil 5y ago
    This has absolutely nothing to do with companies wanting to invest in France - or not. Blizzard closing its Versailles HQ is also a very bad example, one, because they are in a middle of a massive crisis, and two, because the move was motivated by unnecessary greed and it will most likely cost them an arm and a leg in severance packages.
- vmception 5y ago
  Yeah I put it just below what people in developed nations get, because the holidays and sick leave put it much closer on par (5-6 weeks) I don’t consider france a productive environment that has struck a balance for doing business reliably, with a hostile sentiment that permeates down to seemingly everyone and so I don’t really put much stock in their particular labor advances
DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
> added unlimited paid leave The only time this works is when the company's in early-days stages, when you'll be severely underpaid in cash and paid in equity instead, that the VCs have added a tolerance for crash-out-time to their spreadsheets. I've never worked for a company that put "unlimited paid leave" in their job-ads, let alone the actual contract, so I'm curious how those things are spelled out. Under at-will employment, the company can fire you for any (legal) reason, but if you bunk-off work all the time, but your contract says "unlimited paid leave", what case do they actually have? Has it been tested in court?
- hhmc 5y ago
  I agree that 'unlimited leave' is incompatible with at-will employment. However, this presupposes that most (all) employment is at-will, which obviously isn't true, especially globally.
- nly 5y ago
  My guess is they the word "discretionary" tends to come up, and all leave still has to be approved a respectable amount of time in advance.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    If its conditional upon approval then it isn’t “unlimited”.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Something like unmetered or untracked is probably a better term. Of course, it's not literally unlimited. It really does need to come with a top-down culture of taking vacation which a senior former Netflix person told me was the case there. (Though I've also heard it varies by team.) It also isn't great if you want to switch around jobs a lot because you won't get any payout when you leave. Though you do have issues with people taking vacation even in a more traditional system. In a prior job I took some month long vacations and there were some coworkers who were incredulous that "I could do that."
shoo 5y ago
in australia it is standard for all full time permanent roles to have 20 days paid leave a year, in addition to national/state holidays (there are about 10 of these). moreover, if you have accrued a balance of leave when you quit your job, you get paid out for it. having "unlimited leave" where you can't cash it out if you don't use it seems pretty bogus.
coffeeblack 5y ago
I have 30 days per year (plus another 12 days of public holidays). How does “unlimited paid leave” work? Can I just sign the contract and then never show up but still get paid? Or is it just a euphemism for “we expect you to never take a day off”?
- bombela 5y ago
  In my experience, it's closer to the latter.

> added unlimited paid leave Make sure to use at least 20 days a year Take a whole week off per quarter and set that expectation and the Christmas to New Years time doesnt count so double it in Q4

Fiahil 5y ago

Sounds low. Make it seven weeks. That's what most of us get in France.

shoo 5y ago
Why do you think that is? Is the balance of power in France tipped in favour of labour rather than capital? Or is the arrangement in France fairly typical for European countries, and it is countries like the US that are weird exceptions?
- borski 5y ago
  The US tends to be one of the only countries literally obsessed with worker productivity. Many other countries value worker happiness over worker productivity, generally speaking, partially because of a social safety net.
- sirwhinesalot 5y ago
  I think 4 weeks is bare minimum in Europe, 5 common, 6 or close to 6 pretty often (my case). I guess in some places it goes to 7.
saberience 5y ago
It's why so few companies want to invest in France and things like Activision Blizzard closing all their French offices. And of course, the radically lower salaries there.
- Fiahil 5y ago
  This has absolutely nothing to do with companies wanting to invest in France - or not. Blizzard closing its Versailles HQ is also a very bad example, one, because they are in a middle of a massive crisis, and two, because the move was motivated by unnecessary greed and it will most likely cost them an arm and a leg in severance packages.
vmception 5y ago
Yeah I put it just below what people in developed nations get, because the holidays and sick leave put it much closer on par (5-6 weeks) I don’t consider france a productive environment that has struck a balance for doing business reliably, with a hostile sentiment that permeates down to seemingly everyone and so I don’t really put much stock in their particular labor advances

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago

> added unlimited paid leave The only time this works is when the company's in early-days stages, when you'll be severely underpaid in cash and paid in equity instead, that the VCs have added a tolerance for crash-out-time to their spreadsheets. I've never worked for a company that put "unlimited paid leave" in their job-ads, let alone the actual contract, so I'm curious how those things are spelled out. Under at-will employment, the company can fire you for any (legal) reason, but if you bunk-off work all the time, but your contract says "unlimited paid leave", what case do they actually have? Has it been tested in court?

hhmc 5y ago
I agree that 'unlimited leave' is incompatible with at-will employment. However, this presupposes that most (all) employment is at-will, which obviously isn't true, especially globally.
nly 5y ago
My guess is they the word "discretionary" tends to come up, and all leave still has to be approved a respectable amount of time in advance.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  If its conditional upon approval then it isn’t “unlimited”.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Something like unmetered or untracked is probably a better term. Of course, it's not literally unlimited. It really does need to come with a top-down culture of taking vacation which a senior former Netflix person told me was the case there. (Though I've also heard it varies by team.) It also isn't great if you want to switch around jobs a lot because you won't get any payout when you leave. Though you do have issues with people taking vacation even in a more traditional system. In a prior job I took some month long vacations and there were some coworkers who were incredulous that "I could do that."

shoo 5y ago

in australia it is standard for all full time permanent roles to have 20 days paid leave a year, in addition to national/state holidays (there are about 10 of these). moreover, if you have accrued a balance of leave when you quit your job, you get paid out for it. having "unlimited leave" where you can't cash it out if you don't use it seems pretty bogus.

coffeeblack 5y ago

I have 30 days per year (plus another 12 days of public holidays). How does “unlimited paid leave” work? Can I just sign the contract and then never show up but still get paid? Or is it just a euphemism for “we expect you to never take a day off”?

bombela 5y ago
In my experience, it's closer to the latter.