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> The agile boys use user stories to capture requirements. A user story is a statement in the format “As some user I want to do some action so that some reason”
by TameAntelope 5y ago
> The agile boys use user stories to capture requirements. A user story is a statement in the format “As some user I want to do some action so that some reason”.
This isn't, strictly speaking, true. There is nothing in Agile that requires you write "User Stories" at all, let alone this specific style of user story (the "as a _ I want _ so that _" style is called the Connextra template, and it was created as an experiment, not a doctrine).
Alistair Cockburn calls stories, "promissory notes for future conversation." That's it. They can be one word, they can be a sentence. If you're writing anything down in your story, it's to remind yourself of the conversation you had with your team, not to create a contract where you meet the requirements.
If you can't have a conversation with the team, and the team doesn't include a person who has skills to engage with the customer regularly, then yeah, you shouldn't be attempting Agile. Saying "User Stories don't work for teams who can't talk to the customer" is like saying, "A bicycle can't work without both wheels." Duh.
One of the four things, so one full quarter, of the Agile Manifesto is, "Customer collaboration over contract negotiation." [0]
If you need a contract, you should probably rethink something. Either you're not really trying to be agile, or you don't really need a contract, or something very rare and not-normally-your-process is happening.
Honestly, this is probably another case of confusing Scrum with Agile. They are not the same. The author claims to not have much experience with "Rapid Prototyping" (the concept not the tools), and in that sense I would humbly argue that the author, therefore, does not have much experience working on an "actually" agile team.
[0] - https://agilemanifesto.org/ https://agilemanifesto.org/ I always feel bad quoting sections of the Agile Manifesto, as I think it's so short it should be read in full every time it's relevant, but it's hard to slip into a comment like this without derailing the remaining part of the message entirely. Please do give it a read, even if you've read it before.
- robertlagrant 5y agoExactly. Ironically, but unsurprisingly, misclassifying a feature of an agile implementation as an agile requirement.
- rramadass 5y agoNot this again :-) The "Agile Manifesto" is nothing other than commonsense platitudes elevated to (unbecoming) Insight. There is nothing concrete and actionable in it. The "Rhetorical Devices" engaged by its proponents are (from [0]); 1) Unverifiable claims 2) Proof by anecdote 3) Slander by association 4) Intimidation 5) All-or-nothing 6) Cover-your-behind [0] - https://learning.acm.org/techtalks/agile https://learning.acm.org/techtalks/agile and Also see Bertrand Meyer's book Agile!: The Good, the Hype and the Ugly.
- TameAntelope 5y agoOkay? Agile got referenced in the article in a way that was not accurate. I made an attempt at correcting the misconception. If you have a beef with Agile, that’s fine, it’s just nonsensical to try and bring it up here.
- rramadass 5y ago>One of the four things, so one full quarter, of the Agile Manifesto is, "Customer collaboration over contract negotiation." ... I would humbly argue that the author, therefore, does not have much experience working on an "actually" agile team. ... I always feel bad quoting sections of the Agile Manifesto, as I think it's so short it should be read in full every time it's relevant, but it's hard to slip into a comment like this without derailing the remaining part of the message entirely. Please do give it a read, even if you've read it before. My response was to your above statements. As is evident, almost everyone of Meyer's criticisms are proven True here.
- TameAntelope 5y agoEverything you quoted is couched in the stated assumption that one wants to be Agile already. If you don’t want to be Agile, then don’t. I don’t care. However, if you’re trying to follow Agile principles, there are right ways, and there are less right ways. It looks like you just want to argue. That’s great, it’s just not for me.
- afarrell 5y agoWhat if I need a contract because I want to have a meeting-of-the-minds with a customer and then ensure I remember it?
- TameAntelope 5y agoThose sounds like notes, to me. I write my notes on stickies and litter them throughout my desk area according to importance. Some people keep notebooks, you do you.
- BlueTemplar 5y agoAh, so it's not just me ! I mean, I've been taught that the number of development cycles was what the Waterfall / Agile spectrum was about... with an upfront contract without any prototyping being as Waterfall as it gets.