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While PinePhone is definitely an interesting product, GrapheneOS + Termux is such a versatile combination I've stopped looking at these "real Linux" phones. Yo

by h4waii 5y ago

While PinePhone is definitely an interesting product, GrapheneOS + Termux is such a versatile combination I've stopped looking at these "real Linux" phones. You get access to modern power-efficient hardware with a Google Pixel, a proper touch interface, a ton of hardening under the hood, and then to top it all off, Termux offers a very usable Linux environment.

superkuh 5y ago
That's hardening against the user being able to do things, not against corporate or government threat models. Software can only do a little bit on megacorp smartphone hardware even if it tries to help the user instead of locking them out.
- xvector 5y ago
  > Software can only do a little bit on megacorp smartphone hardware That isn't true at all. Do you have a source for your implication that the Pixel's trusted boot chain is compromised, or that remote attestation of software+hardware is backdoored?
  - megous 5y ago
    So who controls the keys?
  - superkuh 5y ago
    Google has attempted to make sure the Pixel's hardware baseband modem is properly isolated from user space. But you can't trust it completely because the Pixel's baseband computer does have access to userspace RAM in terms of physical ability in the hardware. The GraphemeOS FAQ explains it here: https://grapheneos.org/faq#baseband-isolation https://grapheneos.org/faq#baseband-isolation But the pinephone baseband literally does not have the physical/hardware capability. You don't have to trust software from Google or Qualcomm or Pine. https://www.pine64.org/2020/01/24/setting-the-record-straight-pinephone-misconceptions/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/01/24/setting-the-record-straigh... Your request for proof that Pixel's trusted boot chain is compromised or other things is irrelevant both because of the above, and because it's all controlled by the very company you have to worry about. The fox has the keys to the henhouse. It owns the henhouse.
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
Android in general has broken more of termux every version; does GrapheneOS fix that?
- Shared404 5y ago
  Isn't that just the Play Store version? I've not had any problems with the FDroid version.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    It's still more sandboxed WRT at least filesystem access, and I thought Google had made changes to selinux policies that would increasingly break it, although I'm not immediately seeing a source to back up that memory. And in fairness, a custom ROM could fix selinux policies, but it's extra work.
iancmceachern 5y ago
Thank you for this. Can you please link to any resources for getting started in this vein? I did a quick Google search and didn't come up with a clear path forward to explore this option.

by h4waii 5y ago

superkuh 5y ago

That's hardening against the user being able to do things, not against corporate or government threat models. Software can only do a little bit on megacorp smartphone hardware even if it tries to help the user instead of locking them out.

xvector 5y ago
> Software can only do a little bit on megacorp smartphone hardware That isn't true at all. Do you have a source for your implication that the Pixel's trusted boot chain is compromised, or that remote attestation of software+hardware is backdoored?
- megous 5y ago
  So who controls the keys?
- superkuh 5y ago
  Google has attempted to make sure the Pixel's hardware baseband modem is properly isolated from user space. But you can't trust it completely because the Pixel's baseband computer does have access to userspace RAM in terms of physical ability in the hardware. The GraphemeOS FAQ explains it here: https://grapheneos.org/faq#baseband-isolation https://grapheneos.org/faq#baseband-isolation But the pinephone baseband literally does not have the physical/hardware capability. You don't have to trust software from Google or Qualcomm or Pine. https://www.pine64.org/2020/01/24/setting-the-record-straight-pinephone-misconceptions/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/01/24/setting-the-record-straigh... Your request for proof that Pixel's trusted boot chain is compromised or other things is irrelevant both because of the above, and because it's all controlled by the very company you have to worry about. The fox has the keys to the henhouse. It owns the henhouse.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

Android in general has broken more of termux every version; does GrapheneOS fix that?

Shared404 5y ago
Isn't that just the Play Store version? I've not had any problems with the FDroid version.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  It's still more sandboxed WRT at least filesystem access, and I thought Google had made changes to selinux policies that would increasingly break it, although I'm not immediately seeing a source to back up that memory. And in fairness, a custom ROM could fix selinux policies, but it's extra work.

iancmceachern 5y ago

Thank you for this. Can you please link to any resources for getting started in this vein? I did a quick Google search and didn't come up with a clear path forward to explore this option.