4 ms·

Russia asks China for military assistance in its invasion of Ukraine

36 points by labrador 5y ago

belter 5y ago
"Russia Asked China for Military and Economic Aid for Ukraine War, U.S. Officials Say" https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/us/politics/russia-china-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/us/politics/russia-china-...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yrgulation 5y ago
Time to delink china. If the west really needs “cheap” labour then east europe would be more than happy to cover the gap - albeit more expensive than india or china, but the quality will be better. Also wouldn't harm to bring some manufacturing back to western countries. These bullies will one day consume us with our own money if not. No tariffs, just quiet, sustained, investment and subsidies where needed.
- ogwh 5y ago
  We don't go to China for cheap labour. We go for skills and manufacturing capacity & capability. China has advanced so dramatically and the population so vast that they've essentially overtaken the West in nearly every category. I think it was Tim Cook who said, when asked why the iPhone is made in China, that for every one American with the necessary engineering skills you could fill an entire football stadium with Chinese engineers. We barely make anything ourselves in the West. At this point we're just shells of our former selves, totally dependent on China and to a lesser extent other countries. Virtually everything has "Made in China" written on it, from your iPhone to that not-so-great random gadget you bought on Amazon. Meanwhile we're perpetually distracted by inane nonsense fads/infighting and dimwitted celebrity bullshit. The World is Made in China, we're just along for the ride.
  - yrgulation 5y ago
    Tim Cook and many CEO types are great at selling their reasons to outsource. Since most advanced tech is designed in the US it looks like stadiums with chinese engineers can be replaced by factories with robots and highly trained operators - i think we arent doing it simply because its easier to hire loads of cheap engineers without rights and demands. The alternative is to sit and wait until Xi is replaced by a maniac like putin, but with actual monetary resources, know how and self-sufficiency. Maybe this should be a turning point. I am happy that china is developing but our reliance on them puts us at great risk.
  - moltke 5y ago
    1) Up until very recently we were making the more advanced semiconductors and it was one of our larger exports. 2) Most of the advanced/intricate manufacturing is done in Taiwan. China is slowly improving but it's mostly just labor, machinery, and supply chains. 3) Between Trump and Covid a lot of domestic manufacturing was brought back online (steel was a big one.)
thoughtstheseus 5y ago
If the PRC starts sending military assistance or aid to Russia I will begin advocating my representatives for an immediate economic decoupling. I would gladly take 2 decades of domestic retooling and rebuilding over continuing to do business with supporters of Russian aggression in Europe.
labrador 5y ago
China accelerates nuclear weapons expansion, seeks 1,000 warheads or more, Pentagon says https://archive.ph/ksrwP https://archive.ph/ksrwP Russia doesn't need 4,000 nukes to accomplish it's goals so I imagine some sort of trade is in the works. It's a possibility at least.
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
Realistically, what sort of weapons could China send to Russia that would make an impact? Having seen what’s happening in Ukraine right now, the problem isn’t lack of weapons. How would Chinese weapons make any impact in Ukraine? Asking because I have no idea and would like to understand more.
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  I'd have to research a little more about actual viability, but there's been a lot of talk the last few years about China's hypersonic weaponry outclassing U.S. capabilities. I've also heard that Russia had similar capabilities, though, and I haven't seen any reports of them being used (yet). Hard to say if that was propaganda, or if the big guns are being held back.
  - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
    I could understand that Russia may be, for example, running out of their own cruise missiles and would like to have some of the CJ-10s but anything else doesn’t really make much sense?
- tguvot 5y ago
  - anti drone weapons - drones that can carry weapons - javelin/nlaw type weapons - communication equipment
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Ukraine doesn't have a lot of tanks that they actively use against the invasion ( tanks are of limites utility in pitched defensive battles), so i don't think javelin/nlaw and similar anti-tank weapons are what Russia needs. Communication equipment would make sense, but can Russia really equip and start using it quickly and properly, especially the language barrier? Anti-drone and drone equipment makes sense.
    - tguvot 5y ago
trasz 5y ago
I want to believe China will do the right thing.
- zxspectrum1982 5y ago
  With Biden threatening, China may be tempted to do exactly the opposite of what Biden wants. Or maybe that's exactly what Biden wants because the alternative is to think Joe Biden is too stupid to be President.
- postingawayonhn 5y ago
  I think they will. China doesn't need to get dragged into that mess and have a whole lot of sanctions placed on it. Not helping (or even encouraging them to end the war) Russia will help build China's reputation as a responsible global power. A militarily and economically weakened Russia will also allow for greater Chinese influence in the future.

36 points by labrador 5y ago

"Russia Asked China for Military and Economic Aid for Ukraine War, U.S. Officials Say" https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/us/politics/russia-china-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/us/politics/russia-china-...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

yrgulation 5y ago

Time to delink china. If the west really needs “cheap” labour then east europe would be more than happy to cover the gap - albeit more expensive than india or china, but the quality will be better. Also wouldn't harm to bring some manufacturing back to western countries. These bullies will one day consume us with our own money if not. No tariffs, just quiet, sustained, investment and subsidies where needed.

ogwh 5y ago
We don't go to China for cheap labour. We go for skills and manufacturing capacity & capability. China has advanced so dramatically and the population so vast that they've essentially overtaken the West in nearly every category. I think it was Tim Cook who said, when asked why the iPhone is made in China, that for every one American with the necessary engineering skills you could fill an entire football stadium with Chinese engineers. We barely make anything ourselves in the West. At this point we're just shells of our former selves, totally dependent on China and to a lesser extent other countries. Virtually everything has "Made in China" written on it, from your iPhone to that not-so-great random gadget you bought on Amazon. Meanwhile we're perpetually distracted by inane nonsense fads/infighting and dimwitted celebrity bullshit. The World is Made in China, we're just along for the ride.
- yrgulation 5y ago
  Tim Cook and many CEO types are great at selling their reasons to outsource. Since most advanced tech is designed in the US it looks like stadiums with chinese engineers can be replaced by factories with robots and highly trained operators - i think we arent doing it simply because its easier to hire loads of cheap engineers without rights and demands. The alternative is to sit and wait until Xi is replaced by a maniac like putin, but with actual monetary resources, know how and self-sufficiency. Maybe this should be a turning point. I am happy that china is developing but our reliance on them puts us at great risk.
- moltke 5y ago
  1) Up until very recently we were making the more advanced semiconductors and it was one of our larger exports. 2) Most of the advanced/intricate manufacturing is done in Taiwan. China is slowly improving but it's mostly just labor, machinery, and supply chains. 3) Between Trump and Covid a lot of domestic manufacturing was brought back online (steel was a big one.)

thoughtstheseus 5y ago

If the PRC starts sending military assistance or aid to Russia I will begin advocating my representatives for an immediate economic decoupling. I would gladly take 2 decades of domestic retooling and rebuilding over continuing to do business with supporters of Russian aggression in Europe.

labrador 5y ago

China accelerates nuclear weapons expansion, seeks 1,000 warheads or more, Pentagon says https://archive.ph/ksrwP https://archive.ph/ksrwP Russia doesn't need 4,000 nukes to accomplish it's goals so I imagine some sort of trade is in the works. It's a possibility at least.

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

Realistically, what sort of weapons could China send to Russia that would make an impact? Having seen what’s happening in Ukraine right now, the problem isn’t lack of weapons. How would Chinese weapons make any impact in Ukraine? Asking because I have no idea and would like to understand more.

jimmygrapes 5y ago
I'd have to research a little more about actual viability, but there's been a lot of talk the last few years about China's hypersonic weaponry outclassing U.S. capabilities. I've also heard that Russia had similar capabilities, though, and I haven't seen any reports of them being used (yet). Hard to say if that was propaganda, or if the big guns are being held back.
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
  I could understand that Russia may be, for example, running out of their own cruise missiles and would like to have some of the CJ-10s but anything else doesn’t really make much sense?
tguvot 5y ago
- anti drone weapons - drones that can carry weapons - javelin/nlaw type weapons - communication equipment
- sofixa 5y ago
  Ukraine doesn't have a lot of tanks that they actively use against the invasion ( tanks are of limites utility in pitched defensive battles), so i don't think javelin/nlaw and similar anti-tank weapons are what Russia needs. Communication equipment would make sense, but can Russia really equip and start using it quickly and properly, especially the language barrier? Anti-drone and drone equipment makes sense.
  - tguvot 5y ago

trasz 5y ago

I want to believe China will do the right thing.

zxspectrum1982 5y ago
With Biden threatening, China may be tempted to do exactly the opposite of what Biden wants. Or maybe that's exactly what Biden wants because the alternative is to think Joe Biden is too stupid to be President.
postingawayonhn 5y ago
I think they will. China doesn't need to get dragged into that mess and have a whole lot of sanctions placed on it. Not helping (or even encouraging them to end the war) Russia will help build China's reputation as a responsible global power. A militarily and economically weakened Russia will also allow for greater Chinese influence in the future.