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This is interesting because I recently read of a theory that clinical depression is actually an altered state of consciousness, like dreaming or being under the

This is interesting because I recently read of a theory that clinical depression is actually an altered state of consciousness, like dreaming or being under the influence of psychedelic drugs. It seems to explain a lot about depression as well as posing the question what other things might be an altered state of consciousness. I predict if we're successful in creating general AI and/or artificial consciousness, we'll uncover a veritable zoo of different, altered states of consciousness much like how the standard model of particle physics revealed many more particles.

hackerbee 5y ago
Your comment immediately reminded me of Marvin the paranoid android from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
- anothernewdude 5y ago
  That always bothered me. He wasn't paranoid, he was depressed.
  - iszomer 5y ago
    Depressed by design.
hosh 5y ago
I could say a lot more about this, but this would slip into what people would consider as woo. So without treading there, I am just going to say, I think this field-effect of neurons will lead to discoveries about field-effect of all cells, not just neurons; that consciousness is not exclusive to neurons; and how acupuncture (at a mechanical level) might work.
- imcoconut 5y ago
  I completely agree with you
- bsmitty5000 5y ago
  Do you have any sources to recommend if I wanted to learn more about this thought?
  - carabiner 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29223641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29223641
- lumb63 5y ago
  There is quite a good deal of literature out there suggesting that acupuncture operates via electricity, FWIW.
  - cityoften 5y ago
    Can you provide any references to said literature?
    - meowkit 5y ago
      Huberman talks about acupuncture in this episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhsWAqP_0Y&t=4647s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhsWAqP_0Y&t=4647s I don't recall specific literature, but that might provide some names or searches to make.
- comboy 5y ago
  Electric potential across other cells and also single-cell organisms is well known and not new. This is new though (and revolutionary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c Regarding consciousness, I don't get why people who submit to consciousness being everywhere in the universe have problem with simply calling it the universe. It seems to make discussions much more productive.
plutonorm 5y ago
All thoughts are altered states of consciousness. A collection of self reinforcing thoughts that represent an instance of depression are a state of consciousness in the same way that experiencing sun on your skin is a state of consciousness. All is qualia and we move between states of qualia like fish through an ocean.
- grandchild 5y ago
  An ocean with large pockets of powerful currents that are very hard to swim against, to stay in the image. Yes, everything is qualia/sensation/thought, and I get the appeal of the concept of "OMG, by me writing this and you reading it I just literally changed your brain!". But not every state of our brain/consciousness is the same, not every state allows for the same movement of the fish. There's a higher-level interpretation of what the term "state of consciousness" means to many people. Not a "state of the brain, like a state of a cellular automaton" but instead a section in the incredibly high-dimensional space of possible brain states that greatly facilitates going to other interesting positions, i.e. thoughts or experiences.
jotm 5y ago
I would certainly hope that an AI would be void of emotions, which I consider to be a relic of our primitive past. Well, it's not really a relic since it's actually the driving force behind our daily lives and society as a whole, sadly. They do more harm than good in a modern society with billions of individuals.
QuantumYeti 5y ago
As someone who slipped into depression ~15 years ago and has had limited success pulling out of it, I would definitely consider it to be an altered state of consciousness. I remember what I used to be like before, and how I used to behave, and the relationships people seemed to want to have with me. Even recently, I was able to experience a glimpse of that former life when I got a job and was able to hold it for a few months. I think it definitely is an altered state, and it frustrates me to the verge of (re?)insanity that you can buy alcohol everywhere, but can't get generic SSRIs over the counter. At the moment in the US, you can't get an SSRI prescription without going to a doctor every 6 months to let them look at you for 30 seconds, mispronounce your name, and then declare you ready to continue taking their medicine. And that's if you have insurance. The US medical system is too paternalistic, imo.
- MrYellowP 5y ago
  People don't need more drugs to counter depression, people need a better life so they don't get depressed in the first place. "but we can't change their lives, so it's better for them to take antidepressants". No! Nonsense! People are depressed, because their lives suck for whatever reasons. When they take antidepressants their lives still suck, but - like a slave! - they just learn to accept it as it is. When you take a painkiller against pain, the pain and its source don't magically vanish. It's all still there, you just mask it out. Are you feeling sad? Just take SOMA!
  - grandchild 5y ago
    I feel this is an overly simplistic view of depression. I imagine there's a thousand reasons for a state like depression to emerge — some, but not all of them external. I think the Venn diagram of people with depression and people whose "lives suck for whatever reason" is not a single circle.
  - QuantumYeti 5y ago
    > People need a better life so they don't get depressed in the first place. You know, I think I actually agree with you on that point, despite the rest of your post. I won't address the rest of what you said, because it'd just get nasty. The problem, in my opinion, can be described by Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In the US (probably elsewhere too, just speaking for myself), the layer below physiological needs, like clean air, shelter, clothing, etc, is: "Get a job." Without that, you're dead.

hackerbee 5y ago

Your comment immediately reminded me of Marvin the paranoid android from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

anothernewdude 5y ago
That always bothered me. He wasn't paranoid, he was depressed.
- iszomer 5y ago
  Depressed by design.

hosh 5y ago

I could say a lot more about this, but this would slip into what people would consider as woo. So without treading there, I am just going to say, I think this field-effect of neurons will lead to discoveries about field-effect of all cells, not just neurons; that consciousness is not exclusive to neurons; and how acupuncture (at a mechanical level) might work.

imcoconut 5y ago
I completely agree with you
bsmitty5000 5y ago
Do you have any sources to recommend if I wanted to learn more about this thought?
- carabiner 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29223641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29223641
lumb63 5y ago
There is quite a good deal of literature out there suggesting that acupuncture operates via electricity, FWIW.
- cityoften 5y ago
  Can you provide any references to said literature?
  - meowkit 5y ago
    Huberman talks about acupuncture in this episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhsWAqP_0Y&t=4647s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhsWAqP_0Y&t=4647s I don't recall specific literature, but that might provide some names or searches to make.
comboy 5y ago
Electric potential across other cells and also single-cell organisms is well known and not new. This is new though (and revolutionary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c Regarding consciousness, I don't get why people who submit to consciousness being everywhere in the universe have problem with simply calling it the universe. It seems to make discussions much more productive.

plutonorm 5y ago

All thoughts are altered states of consciousness. A collection of self reinforcing thoughts that represent an instance of depression are a state of consciousness in the same way that experiencing sun on your skin is a state of consciousness. All is qualia and we move between states of qualia like fish through an ocean.

grandchild 5y ago
An ocean with large pockets of powerful currents that are very hard to swim against, to stay in the image. Yes, everything is qualia/sensation/thought, and I get the appeal of the concept of "OMG, by me writing this and you reading it I just literally changed your brain!". But not every state of our brain/consciousness is the same, not every state allows for the same movement of the fish. There's a higher-level interpretation of what the term "state of consciousness" means to many people. Not a "state of the brain, like a state of a cellular automaton" but instead a section in the incredibly high-dimensional space of possible brain states that greatly facilitates going to other interesting positions, i.e. thoughts or experiences.

jotm 5y ago

I would certainly hope that an AI would be void of emotions, which I consider to be a relic of our primitive past. Well, it's not really a relic since it's actually the driving force behind our daily lives and society as a whole, sadly. They do more harm than good in a modern society with billions of individuals.

QuantumYeti 5y ago

As someone who slipped into depression ~15 years ago and has had limited success pulling out of it, I would definitely consider it to be an altered state of consciousness. I remember what I used to be like before, and how I used to behave, and the relationships people seemed to want to have with me. Even recently, I was able to experience a glimpse of that former life when I got a job and was able to hold it for a few months. I think it definitely is an altered state, and it frustrates me to the verge of (re?)insanity that you can buy alcohol everywhere, but can't get generic SSRIs over the counter. At the moment in the US, you can't get an SSRI prescription without going to a doctor every 6 months to let them look at you for 30 seconds, mispronounce your name, and then declare you ready to continue taking their medicine. And that's if you have insurance. The US medical system is too paternalistic, imo.

MrYellowP 5y ago
People don't need more drugs to counter depression, people need a better life so they don't get depressed in the first place. "but we can't change their lives, so it's better for them to take antidepressants". No! Nonsense! People are depressed, because their lives suck for whatever reasons. When they take antidepressants their lives still suck, but - like a slave! - they just learn to accept it as it is. When you take a painkiller against pain, the pain and its source don't magically vanish. It's all still there, you just mask it out. Are you feeling sad? Just take SOMA!
- grandchild 5y ago
  I feel this is an overly simplistic view of depression. I imagine there's a thousand reasons for a state like depression to emerge — some, but not all of them external. I think the Venn diagram of people with depression and people whose "lives suck for whatever reason" is not a single circle.
- QuantumYeti 5y ago
  > People need a better life so they don't get depressed in the first place. You know, I think I actually agree with you on that point, despite the rest of your post. I won't address the rest of what you said, because it'd just get nasty. The problem, in my opinion, can be described by Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In the US (probably elsewhere too, just speaking for myself), the layer below physiological needs, like clean air, shelter, clothing, etc, is: "Get a job." Without that, you're dead.