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> even if I try to get coffee them they usually end up having to bail in 20 minutes I'm guilty of being that guy. I have four kids; two in diapers and one stil

> even if I try to get coffee them they usually end up having to bail in 20 minutes I'm guilty of being that guy. I have four kids; two in diapers and one still trying to master the potty. Having "literally negative amount of free time" and "cutting into their health and sleep" is right, and it's good to hear a single person recognize this. I had an old friend contact me recently because he's getting married and wanted to send me an invitation, but also wanted to catch up. I was interested in catching up, but it was two weeks before I finally found 20 minutes to call him on the phone while at a playground with my kids. Even then, when little kids see you on the phone, they panic because they don't have your attention, so one started tugging on my clothing and screaming "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!" Sadly, I usually just tell people to email me, because at least I can write a thoughtful reply when the kids are in bed or randomly absorbed in some activity for a few minutes. Anyway, before my wife and I had kids, we felt like it was hard to make friends because everyone else had kids. We figured it would be easier with kids. Now I'm not sure. We can hang out with other parents when our kids play together, and we can relate to each other more, but everyone else is just as swamped, so these are just more casual acquaintances. It's also exponentially harder to find a good match between two adults and N kids who need to be similar ages and play well together. My wife still complains of being lonely all the time. * I wrote this reply over the course of 30+ minutes in 2 minute slices in between responding to my kids' requests for various snacks, art supplies, and changing one diaper.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Interesting. Having two young kids I don't yet see anything that triggers a consistent "give me attention" response. Maybe I'm just on my phone so much they think it's normal. Still can't imagine having 4 young ones at once. Anymore than two seems unfair to each of them and my SO. There's only so much of my energy/affection/time to go around. Agree it's hard to have any closer relationships, even with other family because of time constraints. I've tried to stay flexible and be the bridge with neighbor families or friends with kids of differing ages. Peers are great and so are mixed aged friends. A lot to learn and enjoy at least until the "it's not cool to play with babies" culture sets in.
- warner25 5y ago
  It seems to be specifically talking on the phone. Having a face-to-face, in-person conversation with another adult triggers a similar but more mild response. Just looking at a phone or typing doesn't trigger it, maybe because they've gotten used to that as you said, or maybe because it's easier to interleave that with giving them attention. There are definitely pros and cons to having the kids bunched together. Mine are all under the age of 7, and I can still take them all to the playground, or give them a box of sidewalk chalk, and they'll all play happily together. So friends don't have to be the same age, but this doesn't work with a much bigger age gap. I don't know how parents properly balance big kid vs. little kid activities and needs. But with a bigger age gap, the older ones would be somewhat independent and potentially even helpful while you're struggling to care for the younger ones. I do feel like I'm consistently failing to give my wife and kids the attention they deserve, let alone my old and new friends. So yeah, when someone else wants my time, I usually think that I should probably give that time to my family instead.

paulryanrogers 5y ago

Interesting. Having two young kids I don't yet see anything that triggers a consistent "give me attention" response. Maybe I'm just on my phone so much they think it's normal. Still can't imagine having 4 young ones at once. Anymore than two seems unfair to each of them and my SO. There's only so much of my energy/affection/time to go around. Agree it's hard to have any closer relationships, even with other family because of time constraints. I've tried to stay flexible and be the bridge with neighbor families or friends with kids of differing ages. Peers are great and so are mixed aged friends. A lot to learn and enjoy at least until the "it's not cool to play with babies" culture sets in.

warner25 5y ago
It seems to be specifically talking on the phone. Having a face-to-face, in-person conversation with another adult triggers a similar but more mild response. Just looking at a phone or typing doesn't trigger it, maybe because they've gotten used to that as you said, or maybe because it's easier to interleave that with giving them attention. There are definitely pros and cons to having the kids bunched together. Mine are all under the age of 7, and I can still take them all to the playground, or give them a box of sidewalk chalk, and they'll all play happily together. So friends don't have to be the same age, but this doesn't work with a much bigger age gap. I don't know how parents properly balance big kid vs. little kid activities and needs. But with a bigger age gap, the older ones would be somewhat independent and potentially even helpful while you're struggling to care for the younger ones. I do feel like I'm consistently failing to give my wife and kids the attention they deserve, let alone my old and new friends. So yeah, when someone else wants my time, I usually think that I should probably give that time to my family instead.