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This article annoyed me with its focus on the pair of women who message each other like Tumblr pals and apparently find themselves the most interesting people o

by bckr 5y ago

This article annoyed me with its focus on the pair of women who message each other like Tumblr pals and apparently find themselves the most interesting people on the planet. But it grew on me, if only through the gravity of schadenfreude, and I read the whole thing. What stood out to me the most was this: > as American life reconfigures itself, we may find ourselves rethinking whether our spouses and children are the only ones who deserve our binding commitments This brought to mind a pair of entertainers[] who: * Have been close friends since 1st grade * Are now in their 40s * Have been creative partners for about 2 decades * Have been business partners for over a decade * When they were teenagers, performed an actual blood oath (cut themselves and mingled their blood) promising that they would create something great together * Now have dozens of employees and a loyal following of millions * Alternately describe their friendship as a brotherhood and as a "second marriage". I am deeply inspired by and jealous of their relationship, and think that this "friendship as commitment" model is dreadfully important. We might benefit from formalization of this type of relationship through institutions (think fraternal organizations--but instead, "philial organizations"). [] Rhett & Link https://open.spotify.com/episode/2DNxju3SrXATFdhd1SzH1A https://open.spotify.com/episode/2DNxju3SrXATFdhd1SzH1A

watwut 5y ago
You don't need fraternities. You need to stop mocking people who treat extended family as important or base their personal decisions on relationships.
- bckr 5y ago
  > stop mocking people Not sure where this is coming from. > who treat extended family as important I'm glad for you if you have an extended family whom you can be close with. > or base their personal decisions on relationships This is compatible with what I am advocating for.
  - watwut 5y ago
    > Not sure where this is coming from. The American culture is fairly big on mocking people who treat extended family as important. It is considered immature to base your decisions on wish to be close to parents, extended relatives or long friends. Maturity is interpreted as caring about small direct unit. Same goes for needs of those. If a guy lives with disabled parents who he helps, he is seen as looser - by his peers who see him as less then and by romantic partners. Same goes for any living with parents, even if you do your shares of chores, have good relationships and pay them rent. It is being treated as invalid option, even if all involved are happy and save money on the setup. The fraternity is creating unit you will prioritize over everything else. That primary means over wife and kids, but also over extended family and friends outside of fraternity. It is more of the same, except even more extreme. The chill out in the evening socialization is something that does not exists and is treated as being lazy. Meanwhile, chatting in office till late hours is seen as being hard worker because you are at work a lot. But then, your social network are your competitors and it disappears when you are sick of change work. I have seen multiple people see regular family visits or partying over certain age or just communal hanging around as immature or somehow weird. The socialization outside of work, where families socialize as families, across age groups, is considered unimportant. Specifically on HN, extended family is seen as source of free childcare, but never as someone worthy of help.
- Cd00d 5y ago
  I think you misread the parent's post. Your response is strangely antagonistic and defensive, and is nearly non-sequitur.
nvusuvu 5y ago
You can find it in religion. The men in the church from 18 to 108 :) all form a quorum, united in belief and brotherhood, finding ways to serve each other and others outside the organization. I find the relationship/friendship with my wife most enriching in my life. And when SHTF (as it does in any relationship), she stood by my side, my greatest ally, and champion.
- bckr 5y ago
  > You can find it in religion Interestingly, although they have now come out as non-Christian, religion factored heavily into the first 2 decades of Rhett & Link's relationship.
  - therealdrag0 5y ago
    Oh interesting. I only saw their videos a few times a while ago and my Christian-radar def went off.
throwawayboise 5y ago
"Friendship as commitment" sounds a lot like marriage.

by bckr 5y ago

watwut 5y ago

You don't need fraternities. You need to stop mocking people who treat extended family as important or base their personal decisions on relationships.

bckr 5y ago
> stop mocking people Not sure where this is coming from. > who treat extended family as important I'm glad for you if you have an extended family whom you can be close with. > or base their personal decisions on relationships This is compatible with what I am advocating for.
- watwut 5y ago
  > Not sure where this is coming from. The American culture is fairly big on mocking people who treat extended family as important. It is considered immature to base your decisions on wish to be close to parents, extended relatives or long friends. Maturity is interpreted as caring about small direct unit. Same goes for needs of those. If a guy lives with disabled parents who he helps, he is seen as looser - by his peers who see him as less then and by romantic partners. Same goes for any living with parents, even if you do your shares of chores, have good relationships and pay them rent. It is being treated as invalid option, even if all involved are happy and save money on the setup. The fraternity is creating unit you will prioritize over everything else. That primary means over wife and kids, but also over extended family and friends outside of fraternity. It is more of the same, except even more extreme. The chill out in the evening socialization is something that does not exists and is treated as being lazy. Meanwhile, chatting in office till late hours is seen as being hard worker because you are at work a lot. But then, your social network are your competitors and it disappears when you are sick of change work. I have seen multiple people see regular family visits or partying over certain age or just communal hanging around as immature or somehow weird. The socialization outside of work, where families socialize as families, across age groups, is considered unimportant. Specifically on HN, extended family is seen as source of free childcare, but never as someone worthy of help.
Cd00d 5y ago
I think you misread the parent's post. Your response is strangely antagonistic and defensive, and is nearly non-sequitur.

nvusuvu 5y ago

You can find it in religion. The men in the church from 18 to 108 :) all form a quorum, united in belief and brotherhood, finding ways to serve each other and others outside the organization. I find the relationship/friendship with my wife most enriching in my life. And when SHTF (as it does in any relationship), she stood by my side, my greatest ally, and champion.

bckr 5y ago
> You can find it in religion Interestingly, although they have now come out as non-Christian, religion factored heavily into the first 2 decades of Rhett & Link's relationship.
- therealdrag0 5y ago
  Oh interesting. I only saw their videos a few times a while ago and my Christian-radar def went off.

throwawayboise 5y ago

"Friendship as commitment" sounds a lot like marriage.