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The mistake made by the two obnoxious semi-toxic characters from whose friendship the article draws inspiration is that they want too much and too many things f

The mistake made by the two obnoxious semi-toxic characters from whose friendship the article draws inspiration is that they want too much and too many things for their friendship. They are needy, one is looking for a daughter and the other a mother, they over-intellectualize, there is no sharing of support or fun. Even the author, who produced a thoughtful if meandering piece (but it was good meandering) comes across as rather unlikeable, she doesn't really like having friends, "Oh, it's so hard, we're all so busy, I'm so sorry." Not hard at all if you're interested in the other person—a boulder to move with your bare hands if instead you're not interested.

ketzo 5y ago
I think it's pretty wild to say there was "no sharing of support or fun" when we see, like, 10 texts total between the two. One of the women literally lived with the other after her divorce. That seems pretty supportive. All in all, this kind of incredibly dismissive comment doesn't add much but negativity to the discussion.
- bckr 5y ago
  I agree that it's dismissive and negative, but golly were those characters obnoxious and at least semi-toxic.
- borroka 5y ago
  It is not dismissive at all. I enjoyed the article, it was well written, engaging, and touches very important points. My points are not negative for the article, are negative for the people involved, and one may agree or disagree. The "support" was not support, was a selfish desire to fit the other person in a void of affection that needed to be filled by someone. One wanted a new mother and the other a new daughter/mentor. That "friendship" is a case-study in toxicity, when one person had a role that they did not ask for and generates a vortex of endless accusations that cannot have any sort of resolution. In fact, as far as I understand, they are not friends anymore and they are both better off that way.
  - ketzo 5y ago
    I think your first comment still wholly dismisses the reasons that the two women (Elisa and Rebecca) and the author find their respective friendships so difficult. Yes, the two women are incredibly toxic toward each other. So… why were they friends at all? Why did they spend years writing letters to each other? That is the interesting part of the article, exploring how two people who ended so toxically could begin as deep friends. By the same token, to simply call the author “unlikeable” and someone who just “doesn’t like friendships” is to defeat the entire purpose. Yeah — she sounds like she’s been kind of a bad friend from time to time, and particularly bad at keeping up with people. She’s telling you that! It’s everything else that’s interesting, and to say “keeping friendships is easy to do, actually” seems very dismissive.
    - borroka 5y ago
      I read the comments on my comment and I don't understand why there is so much overreaction. The author is unlikeable in the context of her article about friendship, not outside of it (at least, I have no idea). Like, she says she's a bad friend, and I imagine many of the readers agree with her definition after reading about how she keeps friends. And yes, being friends isn't hard, like many other things that modern society has determined are actually challenging in the modern world, among which we find waking up. If there is free will, we can keep up with friends if we want to. Then, a mistake that I think many people, and I was among them, make is that they believe that friendship should be encompassing, total, and forever. But it isn't, and in most cases it shouldn't be. "the reasons why the two women (Elisa and Rebecca) and the author find their respective friendships so difficult." Maybe I'm overestimating my "detective's eye," but this doesn't seem like a mystery at all; it would be a mystery if they both had to be friends, wanted to be friends, and for some reason, maybe a mutual allergy, maybe pheromones that cause the "receiving" person to be aroused by the other's presence, and the feeling is so overwhelming that being friends is impossible. That would be mysterious. But reading the exchange between the two, there's only one reader older than 15, and I'm being generous here, who says, "gosh, I just don't understand why they aren't friends anymore," or "I really don't understand what's going on in their dynamic." How can wanting to compare a friend to a mother - a better version of their mother - not lead to extraordinary toxicity? The two should stay as far away from each other as possible. I enjoyed the article, it made me think about my own friendships.

ketzo 5y ago

I think it's pretty wild to say there was "no sharing of support or fun" when we see, like, 10 texts total between the two. One of the women literally lived with the other after her divorce. That seems pretty supportive. All in all, this kind of incredibly dismissive comment doesn't add much but negativity to the discussion.

bckr 5y ago
I agree that it's dismissive and negative, but golly were those characters obnoxious and at least semi-toxic.
borroka 5y ago
It is not dismissive at all. I enjoyed the article, it was well written, engaging, and touches very important points. My points are not negative for the article, are negative for the people involved, and one may agree or disagree. The "support" was not support, was a selfish desire to fit the other person in a void of affection that needed to be filled by someone. One wanted a new mother and the other a new daughter/mentor. That "friendship" is a case-study in toxicity, when one person had a role that they did not ask for and generates a vortex of endless accusations that cannot have any sort of resolution. In fact, as far as I understand, they are not friends anymore and they are both better off that way.
- ketzo 5y ago
  I think your first comment still wholly dismisses the reasons that the two women (Elisa and Rebecca) and the author find their respective friendships so difficult. Yes, the two women are incredibly toxic toward each other. So… why were they friends at all? Why did they spend years writing letters to each other? That is the interesting part of the article, exploring how two people who ended so toxically could begin as deep friends. By the same token, to simply call the author “unlikeable” and someone who just “doesn’t like friendships” is to defeat the entire purpose. Yeah — she sounds like she’s been kind of a bad friend from time to time, and particularly bad at keeping up with people. She’s telling you that! It’s everything else that’s interesting, and to say “keeping friendships is easy to do, actually” seems very dismissive.
  - borroka 5y ago
    I read the comments on my comment and I don't understand why there is so much overreaction. The author is unlikeable in the context of her article about friendship, not outside of it (at least, I have no idea). Like, she says she's a bad friend, and I imagine many of the readers agree with her definition after reading about how she keeps friends. And yes, being friends isn't hard, like many other things that modern society has determined are actually challenging in the modern world, among which we find waking up. If there is free will, we can keep up with friends if we want to. Then, a mistake that I think many people, and I was among them, make is that they believe that friendship should be encompassing, total, and forever. But it isn't, and in most cases it shouldn't be. "the reasons why the two women (Elisa and Rebecca) and the author find their respective friendships so difficult." Maybe I'm overestimating my "detective's eye," but this doesn't seem like a mystery at all; it would be a mystery if they both had to be friends, wanted to be friends, and for some reason, maybe a mutual allergy, maybe pheromones that cause the "receiving" person to be aroused by the other's presence, and the feeling is so overwhelming that being friends is impossible. That would be mysterious. But reading the exchange between the two, there's only one reader older than 15, and I'm being generous here, who says, "gosh, I just don't understand why they aren't friends anymore," or "I really don't understand what's going on in their dynamic." How can wanting to compare a friend to a mother - a better version of their mother - not lead to extraordinary toxicity? The two should stay as far away from each other as possible. I enjoyed the article, it made me think about my own friendships.