4 ms·

>pretty interesting ideas around WASM I'm confused here, does WASM stand for something different besides WebAssembly because googling "kubernetes WASM' came up

>pretty interesting ideas around WASM I'm confused here, does WASM stand for something different besides WebAssembly because googling "kubernetes WASM' came up with nothing but WebAssembly. But I was under the impression that WebAssembly is just a virtual machine. I'm not much of a backend person but I don't see the overlap between container management (kubernetes) to a virtual machine (WASM).

ThePhysicist 5y ago
I meant more that technologies like WASM might obsolete the need for containers and thereby container orchestration platforms like Kubernetes. Of course Kubernetes might itself evolve to orchestrate WASM workloads.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  I can already see it, a zip file containing application assets, a wasm binary and a couple of manifest files with configuration metadata. Where have I seen this already?
  - callahad 5y ago
    Sure, superficially it sounds like Java. But hey, Java was really damn successful for a very long time.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      It would help if that wasn't sold as something new never attempted before.
- kitd 5y ago
  Of course Kubernetes might itself evolve to orchestrate WASM workloads. Already been done: https://krustlet.dev/ https://krustlet.dev/
- robert_dipaolo 5y ago
  The WASM concept has been around for decades, it's effectively jvm or .net in but in the browser. I don't get the relevance when discussing k8s or containers.
  - __jem 5y ago
    WASM is not just in the browser, which is the key point. But yeah, it is superficially similar to the Java application servers of the past. One big difference is that I can compile, e.g., Rust to WASM but not JVM bytecode. WASM is language agnostic in a way that the JVM isn't. This makes it a good target for shipping apps in a variety of languages that just needs to be scheduled "somewhere", which is the main purpose of a container orchestration platforms like k8s. This is an evolution of serverless, where I won't have to maintain a "cluster" for my compute but just hand off a WASM binary to cloud provider.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Because its advocates now decided to reinvent JVM/.NET application containers. https://krustlet.dev/ https://krustlet.dev/
zaps 5y ago
I thought WASM was just super-optimized JavaScript that lets you play Unreal in a web browser. Like Am I thinking of a different tech? Is “WebAssembly” == WASM?
- jitl 5y ago
  You’re thinking of ASM.js, a method of writing and optimizing JavaScript as a compile target for C. It involved a lot of |0 to force the VMs of the time to assume every number was a int32 instead of a float64. Firefox’s engine briefly used a special optimizer for asm.js but it’s just standard compliant JS. WebAssembly is a new virtual machine that isn’t related to JavaScript. There’s no garbage collector or automatic memory management. It uses a binary compiled format for machine code instead of plain text. It’s kinda like Java if you replace the Java memory model with the C memory model, and the Java language with something that looks more like LLVM mashed up with Lisp.

ThePhysicist 5y ago

I meant more that technologies like WASM might obsolete the need for containers and thereby container orchestration platforms like Kubernetes. Of course Kubernetes might itself evolve to orchestrate WASM workloads.

pjmlp 5y ago
I can already see it, a zip file containing application assets, a wasm binary and a couple of manifest files with configuration metadata. Where have I seen this already?
- callahad 5y ago
  Sure, superficially it sounds like Java. But hey, Java was really damn successful for a very long time.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    It would help if that wasn't sold as something new never attempted before.
kitd 5y ago
Of course Kubernetes might itself evolve to orchestrate WASM workloads. Already been done: https://krustlet.dev/ https://krustlet.dev/
robert_dipaolo 5y ago
The WASM concept has been around for decades, it's effectively jvm or .net in but in the browser. I don't get the relevance when discussing k8s or containers.
- __jem 5y ago
  WASM is not just in the browser, which is the key point. But yeah, it is superficially similar to the Java application servers of the past. One big difference is that I can compile, e.g., Rust to WASM but not JVM bytecode. WASM is language agnostic in a way that the JVM isn't. This makes it a good target for shipping apps in a variety of languages that just needs to be scheduled "somewhere", which is the main purpose of a container orchestration platforms like k8s. This is an evolution of serverless, where I won't have to maintain a "cluster" for my compute but just hand off a WASM binary to cloud provider.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Because its advocates now decided to reinvent JVM/.NET application containers. https://krustlet.dev/ https://krustlet.dev/

zaps 5y ago

I thought WASM was just super-optimized JavaScript that lets you play Unreal in a web browser. Like Am I thinking of a different tech? Is “WebAssembly” == WASM?

jitl 5y ago
You’re thinking of ASM.js, a method of writing and optimizing JavaScript as a compile target for C. It involved a lot of |0 to force the VMs of the time to assume every number was a int32 instead of a float64. Firefox’s engine briefly used a special optimizer for asm.js but it’s just standard compliant JS. WebAssembly is a new virtual machine that isn’t related to JavaScript. There’s no garbage collector or automatic memory management. It uses a binary compiled format for machine code instead of plain text. It’s kinda like Java if you replace the Java memory model with the C memory model, and the Java language with something that looks more like LLVM mashed up with Lisp.