4 ms·

This is a very good start. If they did the same for screens, I wouldn't be surprised if the phone sales dropped to half or even less. There is no way companie

This is a very good start. If they did the same for screens, I wouldn't be surprised if the phone sales dropped to half or even less. There is no way companies like Apple and Samsung will be OK with this. I expect big pushback from them. If these steps go through, it will be interesting to see what other planned obsolescence [1] methods will these companies go for. The one big tool Apple has is the full control of the software ecosystem. They can simply make newer apps unavailable for old phones for example. That will need to be tackled at some point. [1] Veritasium video on planned obsolescence which is interesting: https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE

aardvarkr 5y ago
You’re picking on apple but they’re the best when it comes to this… I don’t know a single android phone that’s still usable after five years and still gets software updates. At a certain point the old hardware just can’t handle the new OS as new features get added. Planned obsolescence is certainly a thing but you’d be wise to lobby Samsung to add updates past two years before focusing your wrath on apple. Edit: looks like Samsung bumped it up to 4 years of updates in 2019
- toyg 5y ago
  Apple gets the stick because they effectively invented the model and pushed hard for it. Nokia-era batteries were replaceable, the the iPhone showed up and it all went to hell.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    Exactly, and it wasn't just phones. It was pretty standard to be able to upgrade a ton of parts (memory, disk, boards) in a desktop PC until Apple taught the industry how to solder everything in place.
    - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
      You can still upgrade a number of parts on desktop PCs (including the disks and memory). Do you mean laptops or am I unaware that desktop PCs could be upgraded even more in the past?
      - toyg 5y ago
        He probably meant laptops, but Apple does it even in their desktops these days.
      - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
        To be clear, yes, on most PCs you can still upgrade RAM and disks, but on, for example, a Mac Mini you cannot, and other PC makers have been coming out with more "all-in-one" or "mini" designs that mimic Apple's lack of upgradability.
- ComradePhil 5y ago
  > they’re the best when it comes to this When all other electronics companies always had user replaceable batteries, Apple was the company that decided to not do it. Because the regulatory bodies did nothing to fix this, other companies copied Apple because that was profitable for them. Apple is not only not the best, it is THE worst. In fact, it wouldn't have come to regulatory intervention if Apple had done the right thing in the first place. > At a certain point the old hardware just can’t handle the new OS as new features get added It doesn't necessarily need a "new OS". My fridge has the same OS it came with 8 years ago and it works fine, my raspberry pi 2 model b from 7 years ago works just as well as it did when I got it, with essentially the same OS. Even the first gen Raspberry Pis from 10 years ago work just as well. Most people don't necessarily need "new features". And if they do, they can make that choice and get a new device that does those features better. > Samsung to add updates past two years before focusing your wrath on apple. Samsung provides official updates for less time as Apple (4 vs roughly 7 years) but they provide an official way to unlock your bootloader and install other operating systems, so you can go with community supported ones. If phones themselves start lasting longer, there will be bigger demand for these operating systems and maybe even third party commercial ones which are easy to install, maybe with a subscription even. BUT, just because Samsung does this NOW does not mean they will continue to do so. They have demonstrated that if some shitty company comes along and abuses their position for profits, Samsung is happy to copy the strategy. I understand that this forum has people who work for Apple or some other company or have investments in them or have positioned themselves to benefit from their success... and have incentives to defend them for short term profits for themselves... and those ideas are also picked up by even those who have nothing to do with it... and I believe that is the biggest group of people. Which is why I think brining this out and discussing it is important. Anyways, there are a lot of possibilities if we are to focus on quality long-term sustainable products. Just because the current market is filled with disposable short-term products designed to be replaced all the time, doesn't mean this is the only way.

aardvarkr 5y ago

You’re picking on apple but they’re the best when it comes to this… I don’t know a single android phone that’s still usable after five years and still gets software updates. At a certain point the old hardware just can’t handle the new OS as new features get added. Planned obsolescence is certainly a thing but you’d be wise to lobby Samsung to add updates past two years before focusing your wrath on apple. Edit: looks like Samsung bumped it up to 4 years of updates in 2019

toyg 5y ago
Apple gets the stick because they effectively invented the model and pushed hard for it. Nokia-era batteries were replaceable, the the iPhone showed up and it all went to hell.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  Exactly, and it wasn't just phones. It was pretty standard to be able to upgrade a ton of parts (memory, disk, boards) in a desktop PC until Apple taught the industry how to solder everything in place.
  - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
    You can still upgrade a number of parts on desktop PCs (including the disks and memory). Do you mean laptops or am I unaware that desktop PCs could be upgraded even more in the past?
    - toyg 5y ago
      He probably meant laptops, but Apple does it even in their desktops these days.
    - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      To be clear, yes, on most PCs you can still upgrade RAM and disks, but on, for example, a Mac Mini you cannot, and other PC makers have been coming out with more "all-in-one" or "mini" designs that mimic Apple's lack of upgradability.
ComradePhil 5y ago
> they’re the best when it comes to this When all other electronics companies always had user replaceable batteries, Apple was the company that decided to not do it. Because the regulatory bodies did nothing to fix this, other companies copied Apple because that was profitable for them. Apple is not only not the best, it is THE worst. In fact, it wouldn't have come to regulatory intervention if Apple had done the right thing in the first place. > At a certain point the old hardware just can’t handle the new OS as new features get added It doesn't necessarily need a "new OS". My fridge has the same OS it came with 8 years ago and it works fine, my raspberry pi 2 model b from 7 years ago works just as well as it did when I got it, with essentially the same OS. Even the first gen Raspberry Pis from 10 years ago work just as well. Most people don't necessarily need "new features". And if they do, they can make that choice and get a new device that does those features better. > Samsung to add updates past two years before focusing your wrath on apple. Samsung provides official updates for less time as Apple (4 vs roughly 7 years) but they provide an official way to unlock your bootloader and install other operating systems, so you can go with community supported ones. If phones themselves start lasting longer, there will be bigger demand for these operating systems and maybe even third party commercial ones which are easy to install, maybe with a subscription even. BUT, just because Samsung does this NOW does not mean they will continue to do so. They have demonstrated that if some shitty company comes along and abuses their position for profits, Samsung is happy to copy the strategy. I understand that this forum has people who work for Apple or some other company or have investments in them or have positioned themselves to benefit from their success... and have incentives to defend them for short term profits for themselves... and those ideas are also picked up by even those who have nothing to do with it... and I believe that is the biggest group of people. Which is why I think brining this out and discussing it is important. Anyways, there are a lot of possibilities if we are to focus on quality long-term sustainable products. Just because the current market is filled with disposable short-term products designed to be replaced all the time, doesn't mean this is the only way.