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They don't work but in this case it may have some effect. Cubans moan about US embargo and how unfair it is to them and how it only makes their lives harder whi
by NoPie 5y ago
They don't work but in this case it may have some effect.
Cubans moan about US embargo and how unfair it is to them and how it only makes their lives harder while the elite doesn't care. And yet most Cubans clearly know that it is their socialistic government that is against them and not the west.
In Russia the situation is that most people actually support Putin and his insane policies including the war. There is a minority which actually understands what is going on but it is not enough.
The sanctions and economic hardships may help for others to come to their senses that when the whole world condemns this war with the exception of North Korea and Syria, then their must be something wrong with their leader and not the world.
- manojlds 5y ago> In Russia the situation is that most people actually support Putin How do you know this?
- NoPie 5y agoThere are many polls evidencing this. Also by personal contacts with Russians.
- oleg_antonyan 5y agoTake those polls with a grain of salt: 1) they are all conducted by government or affiliates, independent ones are extinct 2) in danger people tend to stick with the power 3) you can get in trouble for saying anything against the regime, even in polls
- NoPie 5y agoOf course, when you have a law that forbids saying it is a war in Ukraine, you have to take everything people say with a grain of salt. But it is still quite unequivocal that most people support Putin even if it is due to their lack of information. Here is more detailed explanation: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-war-in-ukraine-might-change-putins-popularity-among-russians/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-war-in-ukraine-... I am surprised that you find this idea so unbelievable. I have many Russian friends and a lot of them are supporting Putin when talking in person. It is not about them not being able to speak against but very active being pro-Putin.
- zo1 5y agoThis is such a circular and convenient argument. It's next to impossible to get to any conclusion other than "Russia Bad". All you have to do to trigger this downward spiral/feed-back loop is to start an aura of "illegitimacy" and it's all downhill from there. Next thing you know, polls are "suspect", and "independent inspectors found evidence of". Or there was "intimidation at the polls". Then the government becomes a "dictatorship". Then it's magically no longer a democracy. Then it becomes a "regime" and all their wealthy elite become "oligarchs". Etc etc. The dirty secret and why Russians and anti-west individuals are right is that these properties above magically start disappearing when the "right" people get elected. If it's a democratic election and the "wrong" person wins, then that must mean that the polls were tampered with. You can clearly see it in the drastically different rhetoric coming from the media when Trump won (it was due to Russian interference and hacking and bots and how Trump is now a dictator and how the "Far-Right" took over the whitehouse etc etc). But when Biden won and the other camp screamed election fraud, the narrative changed entirely and it was all about defending the legitimacy of the election.
- int_19h 5y agoIt's a very straightforward argument, actually. Did Russia pass laws criminalizing speech that goes against its war propaganda? Yes, verifiably so - you can find it posted prominently on government websites. Are you seriously claiming that a poll taken in such an environment should be considered accurate?
- holoduke 5y agoAlso don't forget that quality of life in Russia increased significantly last 20 years. Despite the authocratic system people received more economic freedom. That's why Putin is still popular amongst it's citizens. The complaining minority is what we see in the west
- MrDisposable 5y ago> In Russia the situation is that most people actually support Putin Russian here. I'm not so sure about the public support. I've yet to see a single [Z] or [V] sticker on a car in my city. I haven's seen a single Uber driver excitedly telling me about "our victories" -- they've become much less chatty since the war started. Yes, I saw a few video billboards with clumsy [Z] propaganda, but the ad companies may have been forced by the state to display it, under the threat of withdrawing their license to operate an ad business. In my social circle (educated people -- architects, artists, IT, engineers, etc.) there's not a single person who supports the war. A few are in denial, but the majority is profoundly depressed by what's happening. A personal datapoint: My wife hated everything Ukrainian for all her life, way before the war and even before the Crimea events. She has hardwired, biological, instinctual nationalism on a level that would be more appropriate for a football ultra. However, she's been genuinely horrified and gravely depressed since the first day of the war.
- NoPie 5y agoGood to hear that the public opinion is changing. It strengthens the case that it is important to provide proper information more than ever.
- MrDisposable 5y agoIt isn't changing. I may be projecting, but this grave mood has been dominant since the first day of the war. On the contrary, when Puting announced the recognition of two Donbass republics as independent countries a few days before the war, there was a round of cheer and optimism -- because that would mean that the cross-border shellings in Donbass will finally stop. But that cheer has completely evaporated the morning the invasion started. (Take this with a grain of salt -- this is based on my personal observations of my relatively narrow social circle, plus I may be projecting).
- emptysongglass 5y agoMay I ask how you're doing? Why are you staying and are you able to live effectively with a cheaper ruble?