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Do you think Russia's funding of terrorist groups in the eastern portions of Ukraine known for atrocities against civilians could've influenced that decision?

Do you think Russia's funding of terrorist groups in the eastern portions of Ukraine known for atrocities against civilians could've influenced that decision? Or maybe going back farther Russia's sudden seizure of Crimea with a fraudulent vote with 97% in support could've been what made Ukraine nervous that they'd be invaded and seek support from other countries? Or maybe going back a little farther to the USSR's atrocities against Ukraine, including Holodomor--the outright genocide of the Ukrainian people--might've been the thing that makes Ukraine want to ally with literally any country but Russia? The idea that Ukraine should want to associate with Russia is the most bizarre political claim there ever was. Their history is nothing but being ravaged and literally raped by Russia, so them considering joining NATO is nothing but a big "no shit". Putin deserves to be surrounded for his actions. All he's done is shown that the Russia's intentions to destroy the Ukrainian people haven't changed in 100 years.

mercy_dude 5y ago
A big part of the general population of Ukraine never wanted to do anything with NATO, even at the peak of the crisis western backed poll found the support for NATO only around 54%. Your count of history of Ukraine being raped and ravaged by Russia is generally not supported by large part of Ukrainian population, as supported even the western polls. > Do you think Russia's funding of terrorist groups in the eastern portions of Ukraine known for atrocities against civilians could've influenced that decision? What? Eastern Ukraine including Donbass and Crimea has a large majority of Russian speakers with ties with Russia. Ukrainian parliament decided to deny minority languages meant to provoke Russia http://www.iconnectblog.com/2021/04/minority-rights-ukraines-gateway-to-the-west/ http://www.iconnectblog.com/2021/04/minority-rights-ukraines...
- friedturkey 5y ago
  America has a large portion of English speakers. It historically had a large portion of people with direct ties to the UK. Haiti had plenty of people with ties to France and still has French speakers. Taiwan has Chinese speakers and people with family in China. There's a clear pattern here. But Russia pays people to pretend that Russian speakers means it's their land to stabilize. When in reality, it's a completely irrelevant statement.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    Maybe you read some history? To learn how parts of Russia, Hungary, Romania, Slovacia and Poland were forcefully integrated into Ucrainei along with their respective populations by Soviet leaders?
- lalaland1125 5y ago
  > NATO only around 54% And opposition to NATO was only 28%. Twice as many people want to join NATO as those who oppose joining. That's a huge majority and the way you are trying to undersell it means you are either being intentionally misleading or didn't understand how the poll worked.
ailef 5y ago
> Do you think Russia's funding of terrorist groups in the eastern portions of Ukraine known for atrocities against civilians could've influenced that decision? You are maybe confused with neo-Nazi Azov battalion and co. also funded and trained by the USA, which have committed documented war crimes against civilians.
- friedturkey 5y ago
  The very first paragraph of Wikipedia even says Azov formed as a consequence of something. That reason? To push Russian forces out of their country. If Russia weren't terrorizing the region, Azov would not exist. Russia pays to astroturf the claim that Azov is some thing that appeared out of nowhere when it's a group that formed directly to keep Russia and its violent militias out.
  - ailef 5y ago
    I can't help but notice that instead of condemning Azov crimes and recognizing that they too are a terrorizing force in the region, you conveniently blamed their existence on Russia. The hypocrisy here is blaring. We are now at the point of tolerating, hiding and in some extreme cases even justify the crimes committed by these people. All the while forgetting the fact that the US has provided them with military training, money and weapons. In fact, if the US can interfere in a country that's thousands miles away by funding extremist military groups, I find it way more legitimate for Russia to fund Russian separatists in the Donbas region, which has historically had strong ties with Russia and whose population would rather stay there than join the "Western" side. It's also interesting how everybody always talks about self-determination, but only in the case where people want to "self-determine" themselves in the right direction. I would be interested in knowing why it doesn't apply in this case. To conclude: the Ukrainian army along with this these neo-Nazi groups (that have been effectively integrated into the army) has destroyed several hospitals, schools and other civilian infrastructure and killed more than 3000 civilians since 2014 in the Donbas. Ignoring this situation and blaming everything on Russia is one of the reason that we are in this situation right now, and surely one very myopic way of assessing what's going on.

mercy_dude 5y ago

A big part of the general population of Ukraine never wanted to do anything with NATO, even at the peak of the crisis western backed poll found the support for NATO only around 54%. Your count of history of Ukraine being raped and ravaged by Russia is generally not supported by large part of Ukrainian population, as supported even the western polls. > Do you think Russia's funding of terrorist groups in the eastern portions of Ukraine known for atrocities against civilians could've influenced that decision? What? Eastern Ukraine including Donbass and Crimea has a large majority of Russian speakers with ties with Russia. Ukrainian parliament decided to deny minority languages meant to provoke Russia http://www.iconnectblog.com/2021/04/minority-rights-ukraines-gateway-to-the-west/ http://www.iconnectblog.com/2021/04/minority-rights-ukraines...

friedturkey 5y ago
America has a large portion of English speakers. It historically had a large portion of people with direct ties to the UK. Haiti had plenty of people with ties to France and still has French speakers. Taiwan has Chinese speakers and people with family in China. There's a clear pattern here. But Russia pays people to pretend that Russian speakers means it's their land to stabilize. When in reality, it's a completely irrelevant statement.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  Maybe you read some history? To learn how parts of Russia, Hungary, Romania, Slovacia and Poland were forcefully integrated into Ucrainei along with their respective populations by Soviet leaders?
lalaland1125 5y ago
> NATO only around 54% And opposition to NATO was only 28%. Twice as many people want to join NATO as those who oppose joining. That's a huge majority and the way you are trying to undersell it means you are either being intentionally misleading or didn't understand how the poll worked.

ailef 5y ago

> Do you think Russia's funding of terrorist groups in the eastern portions of Ukraine known for atrocities against civilians could've influenced that decision? You are maybe confused with neo-Nazi Azov battalion and co. also funded and trained by the USA, which have committed documented war crimes against civilians.

friedturkey 5y ago
The very first paragraph of Wikipedia even says Azov formed as a consequence of something. That reason? To push Russian forces out of their country. If Russia weren't terrorizing the region, Azov would not exist. Russia pays to astroturf the claim that Azov is some thing that appeared out of nowhere when it's a group that formed directly to keep Russia and its violent militias out.
- ailef 5y ago
  I can't help but notice that instead of condemning Azov crimes and recognizing that they too are a terrorizing force in the region, you conveniently blamed their existence on Russia. The hypocrisy here is blaring. We are now at the point of tolerating, hiding and in some extreme cases even justify the crimes committed by these people. All the while forgetting the fact that the US has provided them with military training, money and weapons. In fact, if the US can interfere in a country that's thousands miles away by funding extremist military groups, I find it way more legitimate for Russia to fund Russian separatists in the Donbas region, which has historically had strong ties with Russia and whose population would rather stay there than join the "Western" side. It's also interesting how everybody always talks about self-determination, but only in the case where people want to "self-determine" themselves in the right direction. I would be interested in knowing why it doesn't apply in this case. To conclude: the Ukrainian army along with this these neo-Nazi groups (that have been effectively integrated into the army) has destroyed several hospitals, schools and other civilian infrastructure and killed more than 3000 civilians since 2014 in the Donbas. Ignoring this situation and blaming everything on Russia is one of the reason that we are in this situation right now, and surely one very myopic way of assessing what's going on.