3 ms·

not a scientist. Note the lack of PhD. The lack of a PhD doesn't make someone "not a scientist". Science is what one does, not what one is. I have a doctorat

not a scientist. Note the lack of PhD. The lack of a PhD doesn't make someone "not a scientist". Science is what one does, not what one is. I have a doctorate from Oxford, but I'm less of a scientist now than I was as an undergraduate student.

deleted 5y ago
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ekianjo 5y ago
> Science is what one does, not what one is. yes but someone who has a MBA is definitely NOT a scientist but a salesman.
- th3iedkid 5y ago
  Wouldn’t it make sense to ask them for citations than use their last/latest educational qualifications? Isn’t it possible, a sales person is aware of something better than someone having an educational degree over it, esp when selling?
- Throckmorton24 5y ago
  After years of lurking I created an account just to reply to this. While in the context of this article I agree with you - this author clearly has an agenda - the general MBA hate on HN amuses me so I thought I would share my anecdote. Also, Melissa Clark, the author, has a BA and an MFA. Maybe we need to hate on artists doing science? People’s lives take them down many paths. I am a “scientist” insofar as I have done science - and am an author on two publications in a respected journal (Annals of Botany). The research from my MS in Biology continues to get cited in evolutionary biology and population genetics studies years later. I also have an MBA and am a senior sales leader in a cybersecurity scale up (at some point years ago I decided I wanted to make more money than academia could provide and I made a major pivot). I’m still equally comfortable discussing herkogamy and phenotypic integration as I am GTM strategy and compensation models.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    > the general MBA hate on HN amuses me MBA graduates are by far used in companies in the Marketing and Sales departments, so interpreting my comment about them being salesmen as "hate on MBAs" is quite funny, because that's precisely how the hiring market sees them. Sure, there are scientists who happen to also have MBAs. That's a huge exception, so you won't win points by finding someone who happens to have that profile. MBAs should typically not be trusted to talk about Science because: - unless they happen to have a multiple education background, they have NEVER been exposed to serious science and the scientific method. Blame it on the fact that Science outside of higher studies is badly taught if you'd like. - their education is mostly about how to understand the market and optimize how to exploit it through market research, targeting, and marketing. The second point makes them suspicious from the get go on any topic they touch publicly. Are they acting as naive actors trying to debate or advance one's understand of the subject, or acting as MBAs trying to push a specific agenda for other reasons?
    - Throckmorton24 5y ago
      Lots of assumptions here. I’m not prepared with data on where MBAs end up but far more of my classmates went into finance than went into sales or marketing. Second place is consulting. Sales (not marketing) is a profession where your base income is typically a fraction of your total comp and additional income only comes from results. Many can’t stand that instability / unpredictability. Contrast that with finance which is perceived as “guaranteed money” if you have the quantitative skills, and does not require one to possess a range of non-technical skills / attributes like charisma, public speaking, empathy, relationship building, etc. My MBA program - and most I’m aware of - do not have a class or curricula on sales, specifically. Baylor is fairly renown for being one of few dedicated sales programs. MBA is a broad, not deep degree. Marketing and strategy are significant parts of the curriculum, but no more so than finance, accounting, economics, and HR. The MBA did not teach me how to negotiate contracts with F500 corporate counsel, or how to navigate the complex, varying procurement models across the enterprise space, or how to get a meeting with a CIO who has never heard of me or my company. I see MBAs among sales leadership but it’s definitely the minority among individual reps (even the ones earning seven figures). I would venture to say your view on MBAs is a bit misinformed. I have much criticism and ire to levy against the MBAs of the world, but I would focus it toward those who are financializing every sector of the economy to the point that Verizon doesn’t want to sell me a $500 phone without a credit check and payment plan.

deleted 5y ago

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ekianjo 5y ago

> Science is what one does, not what one is. yes but someone who has a MBA is definitely NOT a scientist but a salesman.

th3iedkid 5y ago
Wouldn’t it make sense to ask them for citations than use their last/latest educational qualifications? Isn’t it possible, a sales person is aware of something better than someone having an educational degree over it, esp when selling?
Throckmorton24 5y ago
After years of lurking I created an account just to reply to this. While in the context of this article I agree with you - this author clearly has an agenda - the general MBA hate on HN amuses me so I thought I would share my anecdote. Also, Melissa Clark, the author, has a BA and an MFA. Maybe we need to hate on artists doing science? People’s lives take them down many paths. I am a “scientist” insofar as I have done science - and am an author on two publications in a respected journal (Annals of Botany). The research from my MS in Biology continues to get cited in evolutionary biology and population genetics studies years later. I also have an MBA and am a senior sales leader in a cybersecurity scale up (at some point years ago I decided I wanted to make more money than academia could provide and I made a major pivot). I’m still equally comfortable discussing herkogamy and phenotypic integration as I am GTM strategy and compensation models.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > the general MBA hate on HN amuses me MBA graduates are by far used in companies in the Marketing and Sales departments, so interpreting my comment about them being salesmen as "hate on MBAs" is quite funny, because that's precisely how the hiring market sees them. Sure, there are scientists who happen to also have MBAs. That's a huge exception, so you won't win points by finding someone who happens to have that profile. MBAs should typically not be trusted to talk about Science because: - unless they happen to have a multiple education background, they have NEVER been exposed to serious science and the scientific method. Blame it on the fact that Science outside of higher studies is badly taught if you'd like. - their education is mostly about how to understand the market and optimize how to exploit it through market research, targeting, and marketing. The second point makes them suspicious from the get go on any topic they touch publicly. Are they acting as naive actors trying to debate or advance one's understand of the subject, or acting as MBAs trying to push a specific agenda for other reasons?
  - Throckmorton24 5y ago
    Lots of assumptions here. I’m not prepared with data on where MBAs end up but far more of my classmates went into finance than went into sales or marketing. Second place is consulting. Sales (not marketing) is a profession where your base income is typically a fraction of your total comp and additional income only comes from results. Many can’t stand that instability / unpredictability. Contrast that with finance which is perceived as “guaranteed money” if you have the quantitative skills, and does not require one to possess a range of non-technical skills / attributes like charisma, public speaking, empathy, relationship building, etc. My MBA program - and most I’m aware of - do not have a class or curricula on sales, specifically. Baylor is fairly renown for being one of few dedicated sales programs. MBA is a broad, not deep degree. Marketing and strategy are significant parts of the curriculum, but no more so than finance, accounting, economics, and HR. The MBA did not teach me how to negotiate contracts with F500 corporate counsel, or how to navigate the complex, varying procurement models across the enterprise space, or how to get a meeting with a CIO who has never heard of me or my company. I see MBAs among sales leadership but it’s definitely the minority among individual reps (even the ones earning seven figures). I would venture to say your view on MBAs is a bit misinformed. I have much criticism and ire to levy against the MBAs of the world, but I would focus it toward those who are financializing every sector of the economy to the point that Verizon doesn’t want to sell me a $500 phone without a credit check and payment plan.