7 ms·

While we're understanding demands, let's consider the implicit demand of NATO members that every sovereign nation in the world be allowed to sign treaties witho

While we're understanding demands, let's consider the implicit demand of NATO members that every sovereign nation in the world be allowed to sign treaties without being invaded by a dictatorship. Given that NATO's demands are not compatible with Russia's, I suppose people need to decide which side's demands are more reasonable.

z2210558 5y ago
> ...without being invaded by a dictatorship. Why only dictatorships?
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  Well, NATO actually has several demands, including the demand that civilian ships be able to travel safely through international waters[0], but even their narrow demand about invasions by dictatorships is incompatible with Russia's demands. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ocean_Shield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ocean_Shield
- forum_ghost 5y ago
  Because it’s clearly OK, but only when NATO does it.
xiphias2 5y ago
One solution would be to offer Putin an vote in Ukrain for people whether they want to join EU/NATO or Russia. He's so popular anyways (winning elections by 80%) he shouldn't be afraid of it /s
zaphirplane 5y ago
Except for Cuba (Cuba missile crisis) the hypocrisy Not that 2 wrongs make a right
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  I don't know if Cuba signed a treaty with the USSR to have nukes stationed on the island, but you're right that there was hypocrisy in putting US nukes in Turkey but forbidding USSR nukes in Cuba. Fortunately that was resolved amicably without the US invading Cuba. (Ironically, the Bay of Pigs Invasion occurred the year before the Cuban Missile Crisis).
  - forum_ghost 5y ago
    Why would the fact if Cuba signed a treaty or not matter?
- kelsolaar 5y ago
  "In response to the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, and the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev agreed to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles on the island to deter a future invasion. An agreement was reached during a secret meeting between Khrushchev and Cuban Prime Minister Fidel Castro in July 1962, and construction of a number of missile launch facilities started later that summer." [...] "After several days of tense negotiations, an agreement was reached between Kennedy and Khrushchev. Publicly, the Soviets would dismantle their offensive weapons in Cuba and return them to the Soviet Union, subject to United Nations verification, in exchange for a US public declaration and agreement to not invade Cuba again. Secretly, the United States agreed that it would dismantle all of the Jupiter MRBMs, which had been deployed in Turkey against the Soviet Union." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

z2210558 5y ago

> ...without being invaded by a dictatorship. Why only dictatorships?

dane-pgp 5y ago
Well, NATO actually has several demands, including the demand that civilian ships be able to travel safely through international waters[0], but even their narrow demand about invasions by dictatorships is incompatible with Russia's demands. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ocean_Shield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ocean_Shield
forum_ghost 5y ago
Because it’s clearly OK, but only when NATO does it.

xiphias2 5y ago

One solution would be to offer Putin an vote in Ukrain for people whether they want to join EU/NATO or Russia. He's so popular anyways (winning elections by 80%) he shouldn't be afraid of it /s

zaphirplane 5y ago

Except for Cuba (Cuba missile crisis) the hypocrisy Not that 2 wrongs make a right

dane-pgp 5y ago
I don't know if Cuba signed a treaty with the USSR to have nukes stationed on the island, but you're right that there was hypocrisy in putting US nukes in Turkey but forbidding USSR nukes in Cuba. Fortunately that was resolved amicably without the US invading Cuba. (Ironically, the Bay of Pigs Invasion occurred the year before the Cuban Missile Crisis).
- forum_ghost 5y ago
  Why would the fact if Cuba signed a treaty or not matter?
kelsolaar 5y ago
"In response to the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, and the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev agreed to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles on the island to deter a future invasion. An agreement was reached during a secret meeting between Khrushchev and Cuban Prime Minister Fidel Castro in July 1962, and construction of a number of missile launch facilities started later that summer." [...] "After several days of tense negotiations, an agreement was reached between Kennedy and Khrushchev. Publicly, the Soviets would dismantle their offensive weapons in Cuba and return them to the Soviet Union, subject to United Nations verification, in exchange for a US public declaration and agreement to not invade Cuba again. Secretly, the United States agreed that it would dismantle all of the Jupiter MRBMs, which had been deployed in Turkey against the Soviet Union." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis