4 ms·

Curiously, when the wall came down I thought we could all finally be friends.

by smoyer 5y ago

_8j50 5y ago
Friends don't stockpile nukes against each other.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  No but at that time those stockpiles were also in the process of being decommissioned. I have to echo that positive sentiment. And in some areas like Eastern Europe that's exactly what did happen of course.
  - smoyer 5y ago
    I was in my late twenties and expecting my first child ...it was definitely a positive time and the economy was just starting to pick back up. Even the first gulf war seemed like a just cause (liberating Kuwait). I did a lot of work in Europe as well as a couple projects in Brazil and Americans weren't largely disp ised then.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      When people mention US aggression the first gulf war is never really one of them. I think most people still consider it pretty justified. I'm sure their motive was more about the oil but Iraq totally started it. It also didn't leave a power vacuum in the country afterwards that allowed a worse enemy to grow (Like Isis in Iraq, the Taliban's return in Afghanistan). Civilian casualties were also an order of magnitude lower. The local population was better off with the intervention than if it hadn't taken place. PS I don't despise Americans at all! Although I was opposed to the wars in Iraq (2003) and Afghanistan and my own country's involvement in them. However I don't blame the American people for it, same way I don't blame the Russian people for Ukraine. These wars are orchestrated by interests so far above the heads of common people that they really have no control over it.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
meepmorp 5y ago
Maybe if the Soviet Union hadn't just completely collapsed, things might've been different. Or even just not having a corrupt, alcoholic clown for a president during the most critical period in Russian history since the war.
- laurent92 5y ago
  Maybe our FMI didn’t do such a good job at implementing capitalism in Russia. I know the World Bank criticized it a lot for its actions during the 1990 decade, namely Joseph Stieglitz.
- PedroBatista 5y ago
  The chaos was inevitable, it happens ever time and in every society, specially after 70 years of one brutal regime. I was expecting even worse ( and it was bad ). And after a certain period of suffering and unrest, people just want "stability" and that's when any well-intention-ed politician in a country with 5min of democracy experience don't stand a change against the quintessential competent strongman savior of the once-great empire. The problems and solutions for Russia are inside, but I don't see how that society after 70 years + 20 under alternate realities can change to actually modern and democratic ( which is very different from being Americanized ).
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Most of the Warsaw pact are doing much better ( in terms of democratic and economic development ) than most of the ex-Soviet republics, even though they came through a similar path. So it wasn't inevitable.
    - PedroBatista 5y ago
      All of them gone through a period of instability and serious economic hardship in the first years, that was my point. Then eventually they found the path and that path is not inevitable if they let themselves get caught by a “glorious savior”, then its inevitable they’ll end in yet another autocracy.
    - 5y ago
bingohbangoh 5y ago
- kcb 5y ago
  Strange. Last I checked the US arms many countries that share borders with friends. The Netherlands didn't seem to care when the US sold F-35s to Belgium.
  - bingohbangoh 5y ago
    Why does NATO exist again?
    - poxrud 5y ago
      It’s a defensive pact for smaller countries to protect themselves from Russian aggression and imperialism.
      - nevermindiguess 5y ago
        And that’s exactly the problem. Seeking an enemy where there’s one eventually creates it. And lots of arms revenues too.
        timeon 5y ago
        How is it problem if you want to be protected from someone who has already rolled tanks in your country before?
    - timeon 5y ago
      Maybe you should ask people in Poland, Latvia or maybe even in Ukraine.

Curiously, when the wall came down I thought we could all finally be friends.

by smoyer 5y ago

Curiously, when the wall came down I thought we could all finally be friends.

_8j50 5y ago

Friends don't stockpile nukes against each other.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
No but at that time those stockpiles were also in the process of being decommissioned. I have to echo that positive sentiment. And in some areas like Eastern Europe that's exactly what did happen of course.
- smoyer 5y ago
  I was in my late twenties and expecting my first child ...it was definitely a positive time and the economy was just starting to pick back up. Even the first gulf war seemed like a just cause (liberating Kuwait). I did a lot of work in Europe as well as a couple projects in Brazil and Americans weren't largely disp ised then.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    When people mention US aggression the first gulf war is never really one of them. I think most people still consider it pretty justified. I'm sure their motive was more about the oil but Iraq totally started it. It also didn't leave a power vacuum in the country afterwards that allowed a worse enemy to grow (Like Isis in Iraq, the Taliban's return in Afghanistan). Civilian casualties were also an order of magnitude lower. The local population was better off with the intervention than if it hadn't taken place. PS I don't despise Americans at all! Although I was opposed to the wars in Iraq (2003) and Afghanistan and my own country's involvement in them. However I don't blame the American people for it, same way I don't blame the Russian people for Ukraine. These wars are orchestrated by interests so far above the heads of common people that they really have no control over it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

meepmorp 5y ago

Maybe if the Soviet Union hadn't just completely collapsed, things might've been different. Or even just not having a corrupt, alcoholic clown for a president during the most critical period in Russian history since the war.

laurent92 5y ago
Maybe our FMI didn’t do such a good job at implementing capitalism in Russia. I know the World Bank criticized it a lot for its actions during the 1990 decade, namely Joseph Stieglitz.
PedroBatista 5y ago
The chaos was inevitable, it happens ever time and in every society, specially after 70 years of one brutal regime. I was expecting even worse ( and it was bad ). And after a certain period of suffering and unrest, people just want "stability" and that's when any well-intention-ed politician in a country with 5min of democracy experience don't stand a change against the quintessential competent strongman savior of the once-great empire. The problems and solutions for Russia are inside, but I don't see how that society after 70 years + 20 under alternate realities can change to actually modern and democratic ( which is very different from being Americanized ).
- sofixa 5y ago
  Most of the Warsaw pact are doing much better ( in terms of democratic and economic development ) than most of the ex-Soviet republics, even though they came through a similar path. So it wasn't inevitable.
  - PedroBatista 5y ago
    All of them gone through a period of instability and serious economic hardship in the first years, that was my point. Then eventually they found the path and that path is not inevitable if they let themselves get caught by a “glorious savior”, then its inevitable they’ll end in yet another autocracy.
  - 5y ago

bingohbangoh 5y ago

kcb 5y ago
Strange. Last I checked the US arms many countries that share borders with friends. The Netherlands didn't seem to care when the US sold F-35s to Belgium.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  Why does NATO exist again?
  - poxrud 5y ago
    It’s a defensive pact for smaller countries to protect themselves from Russian aggression and imperialism.
    - nevermindiguess 5y ago
      And that’s exactly the problem. Seeking an enemy where there’s one eventually creates it. And lots of arms revenues too.
      - timeon 5y ago
        How is it problem if you want to be protected from someone who has already rolled tanks in your country before?
  - timeon 5y ago
    Maybe you should ask people in Poland, Latvia or maybe even in Ukraine.