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> Those who refer to themselves as Cantonese do not feel superior, but they have generally felt pushed around by Beijing. That's not even necessarily true, peo

by k_sze 5y ago

> Those who refer to themselves as Cantonese do not feel superior, but they have generally felt pushed around by Beijing. That's not even necessarily true, people all over China refer to themselves by their province, sometimes even prefecture or city, simply out of pride. People are proud of being from Shanghai, or proud of being from Fujian, etc. People are aware of tongue-in-cheek stereotypes regarding their own hometown among the larger Chinese population, and that makes each of them feel special and proud.

Stevvo 5y ago
I find it quite amazing how much people love to bring up the tongue-in-cheek stereotypes. This is a perfectly normal interaction in China; A) Hi, I'm from Sichuan B) Oh, great! It must be nice to sit around all day drinking tea.
another_story 5y ago
When it comes to suppression of the language, the exclusion of it in schools, the closing or attempted closing of radio and TV stations, and the hiring of outside officials to push Mandarin, they absolutely do. It wasn't long ago when you'd walk through districts like Liwan and see signs stating “no Mandarin” on restaurant signs or when vendors would refuse to speak to people in Mandarin. If you had lived in Guangzhou, especially in the 90s and 00s, you'd have experience this
- Taniwha 5y ago
  Not really a new thing though, before (very roughly) 1900 most people in France did not speak French as we know it today, the French govt as a matter of policy forced everyone to speak the same language (and it's mostly worked). Here in NZ the govt tried to force people not to speak Te Reo, literally beating it out of children in school, happily we're past that now but, well, that's how cultural imperialism works
- k_sze 5y ago
  Strangely enough, my family has been running a business in Dongguan (not Guangzhou, but close enough, still a major Cantonese industrial city of Guangdong province), since 1980s and we have seen nothing like that. You can't say they "refuse" to speak to people in Mandarin because they simply _can't speak_ Mandarin. Back then, many people simply did not have enough schooling to learn Mandarin, and so they simply couldn't speak it (at least not fluently). The government was not stupid. There was utterly no reason to enforce Mandarin and deprecate Cantonese when they were expecting so much investment from Hong Kongers (who usually did not speak Mandarin either) during that period. Cantonese TV stations and radio stations are still doing just fine today. And then of course you can't have just Cantonese when there's an influx of labour from other parts of China, which is why, as a simple matter of economic adaptation, Mandarin gradually picked up. But Cantonese is not being threatened in any way. In fact, there is now a more widespread understanding of the importance of Cantonese, because it is _closer_ to Middle Chinese from the Tang and Song dynasties than many other dialects. It's an important dialect for properly studying and appreciating Tang poems. I know people in more Northern parts of China who know Cantonese songs from the 80s and 90s of Hong Kong because they appreciate the more classical wordings and rhymes of the lyrics.

by k_sze 5y ago

Stevvo 5y ago

I find it quite amazing how much people love to bring up the tongue-in-cheek stereotypes. This is a perfectly normal interaction in China; A) Hi, I'm from Sichuan B) Oh, great! It must be nice to sit around all day drinking tea.

another_story 5y ago

When it comes to suppression of the language, the exclusion of it in schools, the closing or attempted closing of radio and TV stations, and the hiring of outside officials to push Mandarin, they absolutely do. It wasn't long ago when you'd walk through districts like Liwan and see signs stating “no Mandarin” on restaurant signs or when vendors would refuse to speak to people in Mandarin. If you had lived in Guangzhou, especially in the 90s and 00s, you'd have experience this

Taniwha 5y ago
Not really a new thing though, before (very roughly) 1900 most people in France did not speak French as we know it today, the French govt as a matter of policy forced everyone to speak the same language (and it's mostly worked). Here in NZ the govt tried to force people not to speak Te Reo, literally beating it out of children in school, happily we're past that now but, well, that's how cultural imperialism works
k_sze 5y ago
Strangely enough, my family has been running a business in Dongguan (not Guangzhou, but close enough, still a major Cantonese industrial city of Guangdong province), since 1980s and we have seen nothing like that. You can't say they "refuse" to speak to people in Mandarin because they simply _can't speak_ Mandarin. Back then, many people simply did not have enough schooling to learn Mandarin, and so they simply couldn't speak it (at least not fluently). The government was not stupid. There was utterly no reason to enforce Mandarin and deprecate Cantonese when they were expecting so much investment from Hong Kongers (who usually did not speak Mandarin either) during that period. Cantonese TV stations and radio stations are still doing just fine today. And then of course you can't have just Cantonese when there's an influx of labour from other parts of China, which is why, as a simple matter of economic adaptation, Mandarin gradually picked up. But Cantonese is not being threatened in any way. In fact, there is now a more widespread understanding of the importance of Cantonese, because it is _closer_ to Middle Chinese from the Tang and Song dynasties than many other dialects. It's an important dialect for properly studying and appreciating Tang poems. I know people in more Northern parts of China who know Cantonese songs from the 80s and 90s of Hong Kong because they appreciate the more classical wordings and rhymes of the lyrics.