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I always feel out of my depth whenever something happens in the Middle East or Europe. Wouldn't mind getting a few classes on all the conflicts between these gr

I always feel out of my depth whenever something happens in the Middle East or Europe. Wouldn't mind getting a few classes on all the conflicts between these groups.

awb 5y ago
If you’re looking for a high-level, fast-paced overview of some of the major points, Crash Course has some entertaining content. European history: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtMsMTfmRomkVQG8AqrAmJFX https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtMsMTfmRomkVQG8... World history: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBDA2E52FB1EF80C9 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBDA2E52FB1EF80C9
ars 5y ago
It's very difficult for a Westerner to understand the Middle East - they don't think like you do, their, I don't know how to put it, "value metric" is different from yours. So their action as a result of information will be different from yours (they value different things than you do). Even if you learn the information, and you can, you still won't understand why they act as they do, unless you really immerse yourself in their culture.
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  Frankly I think this fact is a major barrier for people with Ukraine and Russia as well. People can’t comprehend that people there, especially in Russia, see the conflict much differently than people in Canada or the USA might. It’s almost as though instead they assume people are dysfunctional or stupid. It seems very detrimental to collectively moving forward. People really do seem well-suited to living in small and homogenous groups, not billions upon billions in a global civilization.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > People really do seem well-suited to living in small and homogenous groups, not billions upon billions in a global civilization. Humanity has done and is doing far better in the multi-billion person global civilization (whatever that means) than in small homogenous groups, by any measure you can imagine, by many orders of magnitude. There is no comparison. And in fact, most of the remaining problems are due to people trying to divide others into homogenous groups.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  How astonishingly racist. And how astonishingly uncurious. If you find this reaction shocking and you sincerely want to find more understanding of the Middle East, your ancestors or peers almost certainly have also been colonized, or have neighbors who have. This reaction to colonized people is so banal you should be able to find troves of understanding if you bother to look. Edit: I expect this to continue to be downvoted, because I know the way things go here. But honestly every one of you downvoting me who think it’s a reasonable thing to say ‘they don't think like you do, their, I don't know how to put it, "value metric" is different from yours’… take a moment and think about that.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    So, an alternative view point here. Fwiw I'm Iranian and I'm living in the US. I kinda agree with you that just dismissing it like that feels off-putting. However, I actually want people (mainly westerners) to admit that they don't know how shit works there, and how, for example, Iranians deal with conflicts and grief. What I don't want is that they assume that the way Americans do it is the right way, and everyone else is wrong. Or that they really could have any reasonable opinion that isn't going to make the shit worse without REALLY taking the time to try to learn and talk about what's going on and how to not fuck it up even more because America and Europe keep fucking it up.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      I agree with this completely, for what it’s worth. The thing I objected to in the comment above was the ‘we/they just think differently and it’s not knowable’ attitude, which is dehumanizing as fuck. I would hope people are interested in learning why other people act and react the way they do, and understand that there are cultural and historical influences on that. And to the point of not assuming American reactions are right: we’re so screwed up we don’t even realize we’re still reacting to our own colonization even after being colonizers for centuries.
  - ars 5y ago
    I feel like you read a judgment in there that I did not write. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fear_spectrum_of_cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fe... someone from one type would have a hard time understanding the actions of someone from the other type "why did you do that?". Even if you manage to intellectually understand the concept, internalizing it is a whole other level, which takes time and lots of contact. The Middle East culture is different from the Western culture, and knowing this helps understanding.
newobj 5y ago
Start here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XN8UG3C/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XN8UG3C/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... The Silk Roads: A New History of the World by Peter Frankopan

I always feel out of my depth whenever something happens in the Middle East or Europe. Wouldn't mind getting a few classes on all the conflicts between these groups.

awb 5y ago

If you’re looking for a high-level, fast-paced overview of some of the major points, Crash Course has some entertaining content. European history: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtMsMTfmRomkVQG8AqrAmJFX https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtMsMTfmRomkVQG8... World history: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBDA2E52FB1EF80C9 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBDA2E52FB1EF80C9

ars 5y ago

It's very difficult for a Westerner to understand the Middle East - they don't think like you do, their, I don't know how to put it, "value metric" is different from yours. So their action as a result of information will be different from yours (they value different things than you do). Even if you learn the information, and you can, you still won't understand why they act as they do, unless you really immerse yourself in their culture.

steve_adams_86 5y ago
Frankly I think this fact is a major barrier for people with Ukraine and Russia as well. People can’t comprehend that people there, especially in Russia, see the conflict much differently than people in Canada or the USA might. It’s almost as though instead they assume people are dysfunctional or stupid. It seems very detrimental to collectively moving forward. People really do seem well-suited to living in small and homogenous groups, not billions upon billions in a global civilization.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > People really do seem well-suited to living in small and homogenous groups, not billions upon billions in a global civilization. Humanity has done and is doing far better in the multi-billion person global civilization (whatever that means) than in small homogenous groups, by any measure you can imagine, by many orders of magnitude. There is no comparison. And in fact, most of the remaining problems are due to people trying to divide others into homogenous groups.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
How astonishingly racist. And how astonishingly uncurious. If you find this reaction shocking and you sincerely want to find more understanding of the Middle East, your ancestors or peers almost certainly have also been colonized, or have neighbors who have. This reaction to colonized people is so banal you should be able to find troves of understanding if you bother to look. Edit: I expect this to continue to be downvoted, because I know the way things go here. But honestly every one of you downvoting me who think it’s a reasonable thing to say ‘they don't think like you do, their, I don't know how to put it, "value metric" is different from yours’… take a moment and think about that.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  So, an alternative view point here. Fwiw I'm Iranian and I'm living in the US. I kinda agree with you that just dismissing it like that feels off-putting. However, I actually want people (mainly westerners) to admit that they don't know how shit works there, and how, for example, Iranians deal with conflicts and grief. What I don't want is that they assume that the way Americans do it is the right way, and everyone else is wrong. Or that they really could have any reasonable opinion that isn't going to make the shit worse without REALLY taking the time to try to learn and talk about what's going on and how to not fuck it up even more because America and Europe keep fucking it up.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    I agree with this completely, for what it’s worth. The thing I objected to in the comment above was the ‘we/they just think differently and it’s not knowable’ attitude, which is dehumanizing as fuck. I would hope people are interested in learning why other people act and react the way they do, and understand that there are cultural and historical influences on that. And to the point of not assuming American reactions are right: we’re so screwed up we don’t even realize we’re still reacting to our own colonization even after being colonizers for centuries.
- ars 5y ago
  I feel like you read a judgment in there that I did not write. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fear_spectrum_of_cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fe... someone from one type would have a hard time understanding the actions of someone from the other type "why did you do that?". Even if you manage to intellectually understand the concept, internalizing it is a whole other level, which takes time and lots of contact. The Middle East culture is different from the Western culture, and knowing this helps understanding.

newobj 5y ago

Start here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XN8UG3C/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XN8UG3C/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... The Silk Roads: A New History of the World by Peter Frankopan