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JavaScript is productive once you stop listening to all the high level abstracts and complications. Vanilla JavaScript is beautiful and highly productive. Right

by dnndev 5y ago

JavaScript is productive once you stop listening to all the high level abstracts and complications. Vanilla JavaScript is beautiful and highly productive. Right up there with c# for server side ops.

mkr-hn 5y ago
There does seem to be some cultural inertia from the gap between when people made all the new frameworks and extensions to make JavaScript keep up with the advance of the web and when JavaScript got most of that functionality built in. CSS has the same issue where people don't realize it does most of what frameworks were made for originally like grids and changes based on medium/resolution/etc.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  I think it's the curse of web development. It's so hard to keep up with all the brand new technology changes, so once you know the basics well enough you rarely take much time to look back at them. And Googling "how to create a grid" feels kind of redundant if you've already found a reasonable effective way to do it.
- lodovic 5y ago
  All these new features are nice, but not all users are using the latest browsers, so we have to keep falling back on these frameworks
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    The only scenarios I can think of where someone hasn't been on an auto-updating browser for 10+ years is embedded systems and locked down intranets where no one expects the latest and greatest, and people in circumstances where a minimal page not top-heavy with scripts and frameworks is best.
    - lodovic 5y ago
      Have you ever worked for a bank?
smt88 5y ago
As someone who has only written Node/TypeScript and C# backends in the last 10 years, I couldn't disagree more. Node has so few "batteries included" that you spend a ridiculous amount of time searching npm. That's especially bad because Node's ecosystem is a graveyard. There are 3-10 libraries for everything, and (if you're lucky) one will be well-tested and maintained. And even then, you're very rarely going to find something that's also: 1) maintained by more than one person, 2) used in production by well-funded developers, and 3) able to keep up with their Github bug reports. In some cases, I have to try 2-3 libraries before picking one and often switch to another one later. .NET, on the other hand, has a great ecosystem, batteries included, and (if needed) usually a commercial library for the really important stuff. It's just a far more stable and serious ecosystem in general.
DeathArrow 5y ago
Vanilla Javascript is productive until you reach a certain size of the project. After that the bugs will kill you. You will lose more time hunting bugs then writing code. And that is not Javascript's fault because it was never intended to be anything else that a small script language to interact with DOM in a web page and add a bit of interactivity to HTML.

by dnndev 5y ago

JavaScript is productive once you stop listening to all the high level abstracts and complications. Vanilla JavaScript is beautiful and highly productive. Right up there with c# for server side ops.

mkr-hn 5y ago

There does seem to be some cultural inertia from the gap between when people made all the new frameworks and extensions to make JavaScript keep up with the advance of the web and when JavaScript got most of that functionality built in. CSS has the same issue where people don't realize it does most of what frameworks were made for originally like grids and changes based on medium/resolution/etc.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
I think it's the curse of web development. It's so hard to keep up with all the brand new technology changes, so once you know the basics well enough you rarely take much time to look back at them. And Googling "how to create a grid" feels kind of redundant if you've already found a reasonable effective way to do it.
lodovic 5y ago
All these new features are nice, but not all users are using the latest browsers, so we have to keep falling back on these frameworks
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  The only scenarios I can think of where someone hasn't been on an auto-updating browser for 10+ years is embedded systems and locked down intranets where no one expects the latest and greatest, and people in circumstances where a minimal page not top-heavy with scripts and frameworks is best.
  - lodovic 5y ago
    Have you ever worked for a bank?

smt88 5y ago

As someone who has only written Node/TypeScript and C# backends in the last 10 years, I couldn't disagree more. Node has so few "batteries included" that you spend a ridiculous amount of time searching npm. That's especially bad because Node's ecosystem is a graveyard. There are 3-10 libraries for everything, and (if you're lucky) one will be well-tested and maintained. And even then, you're very rarely going to find something that's also: 1) maintained by more than one person, 2) used in production by well-funded developers, and 3) able to keep up with their Github bug reports. In some cases, I have to try 2-3 libraries before picking one and often switch to another one later. .NET, on the other hand, has a great ecosystem, batteries included, and (if needed) usually a commercial library for the really important stuff. It's just a far more stable and serious ecosystem in general.

DeathArrow 5y ago

Vanilla Javascript is productive until you reach a certain size of the project. After that the bugs will kill you. You will lose more time hunting bugs then writing code. And that is not Javascript's fault because it was never intended to be anything else that a small script language to interact with DOM in a web page and add a bit of interactivity to HTML.