4 ms·

> No economy. No infrastructure. No housing. Little of value except a concept Coastline could be the answer to all of those. Ships are housing and have their

> No economy. No infrastructure. No housing. Little of value except a concept Coastline could be the answer to all of those. Ships are housing and have their own self-contained infrastructure. Fishing and transport are a few major economic activities of significant value. With motivation, time, and a bit of capital, this could turn into something. I just wouldn't bet on it.

ethbr0 5y ago
https://www.google.com/maps/@17.5746578,-88.1629002,16z https://www.google.com/maps/@17.5746578,-88.1629002,16z From a quick glance, it appears to be inside the outermost barrier islands of Belize. Consequently, I believe UNCLOS would typically mark their EEZ equidistant from the nearest Belize coastlines (either mainland or island). Which is to say: small. And that's even assuming they overcame the insurmountable challenge of becoming a recognized party to the convention. Everyone wants to be a sovereign island nation, but no one wants to sit through 20+ years of UN proceedings to make it happen.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  You don't need UN recognition, you just need a host state to cede legal jurisdiction.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Does that automatically cascade to maritime claims? I was trying to figure out what right is actually used for deciding whose coast a given coast is, for international treaty purposes.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      I'm not sure, but not sure why it matters either. Any country can cede or sell territory to someone else. The UN or maritime law doesn't play into it. Maybe I'm missing the context where the island would need be recognized as independent by anyone besides Belize
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        The comment I was replying to was discussing the economic possibilities inherent in having a coastline. A large number of which are governed by actual, taxable control of the waters in question. Which in turn is defined by international treaties (and local power acceptance of same). Anyone can call themselves a nation, but being one requires an economy based on something. And presumably agriculture isn't an option with 1.5 acres of sandy soil.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        I still don't see how international recognition impacts any of this. For example, the tax status of someone in Hawaii doesn't depend on what the UN or China says about it. It only depends the ability to enforce the taxes locally. As I understand it, the most likely economic purpose of this island would be a tax haven. This only depends on people using the haven willing to pay for it, and Belize agreeing that they will not try to tax it.
        ethbr0 5y ago
        > Coastline could be the answer to all of those. Ships are housing and have their own self-contained infrastructure. Fishing and transport are a few major economic activities of significant value. You're going to be hard pressed to construct an economy around any of those without an international agreement defining you as the sovereign entity. Otherwise, why would I, the captain of a Mexican ship, pay taxes to Coffee Caye? Because Belize tells me to? Well, then we've just found out who has sovereignty.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >why would I, the captain of a Mexican ship, pay taxes to Coffee Caye? Like any country, You wouldn't unless they have a gunboats to stop you. Hell, most countries around the world can't keep Chinese fleets from exploiting their EEZ. I'm saying that coffee Caye could make its money by signing citizenship papers and renting some yacht slips and moorings. You don't need a navy or recognition to do that. S If someone doesn't pay taxes, you don't renew citizenship. Someone doesn't pay dock fees, you cut their power. You don't need UN recognition to turn off someone's power, and the UN isn't going to send peacekeepers to prevent eviction.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    That's not true. Look at sealand. No one recognizes it as outside the uk except the uk
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      The UK doesn't recognize Sealand as independent as far I know.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        Apparently the UK doesn't. I was under the impression that the owners had won some court case in the UK and ended up a strange quasiterritory.

ethbr0 5y ago

https://www.google.com/maps/@17.5746578,-88.1629002,16z https://www.google.com/maps/@17.5746578,-88.1629002,16z From a quick glance, it appears to be inside the outermost barrier islands of Belize. Consequently, I believe UNCLOS would typically mark their EEZ equidistant from the nearest Belize coastlines (either mainland or island). Which is to say: small. And that's even assuming they overcame the insurmountable challenge of becoming a recognized party to the convention. Everyone wants to be a sovereign island nation, but no one wants to sit through 20+ years of UN proceedings to make it happen.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
You don't need UN recognition, you just need a host state to cede legal jurisdiction.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Does that automatically cascade to maritime claims? I was trying to figure out what right is actually used for deciding whose coast a given coast is, for international treaty purposes.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I'm not sure, but not sure why it matters either. Any country can cede or sell territory to someone else. The UN or maritime law doesn't play into it. Maybe I'm missing the context where the island would need be recognized as independent by anyone besides Belize
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      The comment I was replying to was discussing the economic possibilities inherent in having a coastline. A large number of which are governed by actual, taxable control of the waters in question. Which in turn is defined by international treaties (and local power acceptance of same). Anyone can call themselves a nation, but being one requires an economy based on something. And presumably agriculture isn't an option with 1.5 acres of sandy soil.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        I still don't see how international recognition impacts any of this. For example, the tax status of someone in Hawaii doesn't depend on what the UN or China says about it. It only depends the ability to enforce the taxes locally. As I understand it, the most likely economic purpose of this island would be a tax haven. This only depends on people using the haven willing to pay for it, and Belize agreeing that they will not try to tax it.
        ethbr0 5y ago
        > Coastline could be the answer to all of those. Ships are housing and have their own self-contained infrastructure. Fishing and transport are a few major economic activities of significant value. You're going to be hard pressed to construct an economy around any of those without an international agreement defining you as the sovereign entity. Otherwise, why would I, the captain of a Mexican ship, pay taxes to Coffee Caye? Because Belize tells me to? Well, then we've just found out who has sovereignty.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >why would I, the captain of a Mexican ship, pay taxes to Coffee Caye? Like any country, You wouldn't unless they have a gunboats to stop you. Hell, most countries around the world can't keep Chinese fleets from exploiting their EEZ. I'm saying that coffee Caye could make its money by signing citizenship papers and renting some yacht slips and moorings. You don't need a navy or recognition to do that. S If someone doesn't pay taxes, you don't renew citizenship. Someone doesn't pay dock fees, you cut their power. You don't need UN recognition to turn off someone's power, and the UN isn't going to send peacekeepers to prevent eviction.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  That's not true. Look at sealand. No one recognizes it as outside the uk except the uk
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    The UK doesn't recognize Sealand as independent as far I know.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Apparently the UK doesn't. I was under the impression that the owners had won some court case in the UK and ended up a strange quasiterritory.