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Everyone seems to be forgetting the most obvious problem: this island is still territory of the nation of Belize. It is less than 5 miles from the coast of the

Everyone seems to be forgetting the most obvious problem: this island is still territory of the nation of Belize. It is less than 5 miles from the coast of the capital city. There are inhabited islands further away from this one that are solidly part of Belize. I can't buy an island a few miles off the coast of Seattle and then call it an independent country.

walrus01 5y ago
If I had a dollar for every "libertarian" including McAfee who thinks that Belize is some sort of lawless free-for-all zone... Or a dollar for every weird shady "entrepreneur" that thinks relocating their legal residence to Belize or Cyprus will solve all of their tax problems... There is a whole gross venn diagram overlap of libertarians, cryptocurrency bros, penny stock pump and dump, internet porn and casino hosting operations, NFT promoters, "hustle culture", amateur tax avoidance offshoring self proclaimed "experts", people selling naturopathic dick pills online, people selling shares in bare land real estate ventures on economically-uninhabitable sandbar islands, etc.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  And then there's Mossack Fonseca who did it the "right" way for all the people rich enough to require and afford their services. Where "right" means "properly structured to create the necessary opacity". I find it hard to blame the small guys with big dreams since they're only trying to emulate their tax evading, asset-hiding heroes.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    totally agreed. it's not just things like caymanian corporations, plenty goes on within the square mile: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/12/uks-kleptocracy-problem/03-global-money-laundering-capital https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/12/uks-kleptocracy-problem... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/murky-deals-with-corruptistan-fast-becoming-quintessentially-british https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/murky-... https://apnews.com/article/business-london-europe-media-f91432c785e4e06a8fb2c7370d4ca63d https://apnews.com/article/business-london-europe-media-f914... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/opinion/pandora-papers-britain-london.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/opinion/pandora-papers-br...
- postingawayonhn 5y ago
  McAfee left Belize in 2013 and died in a Spanish prison last year.
  - dehrmann 5y ago
    He claims he was $WHACKD, but he's not a credible source.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    and prior to that he seemed to be treating belize like some sort of libertarian utopia and promiting it as such (right up until the totally weird murder case/sudden unexplained death of some neighbour of his, when he went on the lam)
- throwaway14356 5y ago
  sounds like a vibrant economy. maybe even worth donating if they can just pack their bag and leave for the prommised land
Aspos 5y ago
A couple of $100M political donations may win hearts and bi-partisan support of some decision makers in one powerful country. An offer to Belize along the lines of "Hey, we will fund higher education of all your citizens for the next 50 years if you let us secede" may get people listening. "Hey, we will build several top-class hospitals and huge solar farms if you recognize us" may interest neighboring countries. All in all it may take less money than some startups raise.
- csomar 5y ago
  > A couple of $100M political donations may win hearts and bi-partisan support of some decision makers in one powerful country. An offer to Belize along the lines of "Hey, we will fund higher education of all your citizens for the next 50 years if you let us secede" may get people listening. "Hey, we will build several top-class hospitals and huge solar farms if you recognize us" may interest neighboring countries. You can already "buy" a small/third-world country with that kind of money. No need to go mess up with an island.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    $100M is not that much money. I'm pretty sure that's less than the money already going towards charter cities, which are actually a meaningful possibility and currently being developed e.g. in Honduras Special Development Zones.
    - csomar 5y ago
      I mean buy the politician in that third-world crap-hole and get your way around the laws/rules of that country.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  Taxes basically. The motivation is to avoid paying taxes but every country that's a country has to pay taxes, it's just too obviously necessary. Same thing as pooling money for a party, even investing is pooling money. I can't recommend you be as tax-docile as I am, I don't spend any time recommending it to anybody, but come on. "Taxation" is considered such a bad thing but there's just no way for eg. an orphan to have a dignified existence without it. Donations just don't work, depending on them is too degrading, the orphans end up having to forcibly write thank-you notes if they want the less-bad food (thank-you notes on a good day, there's much worse). That is bullshit. I'd rather pay taxes (in my case way above what is mandatory) and have those orphans write fuck-you notes instead. To whom? To all the people in society who want to benefit from their vulnerability.
collegeburner 5y ago
Ok but why shouldn't they be able to secede? Belize doesn't own it.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  How's that going for Chagos? Whose people pretty clearly own their own land, have UN decisions in their favor, and still haven't been able to gain control of the islands. Or, to put it another way, why wouldn't Belize just "do nothing" and refuse to recognize their sucession?
- 323 5y ago
  There are two owners to every piece of land: the "civil" owner, and the "sovereign" owner. Belize is still the "sovereign" owner of that island, the ultimate owner that trumps every other one.
  - collegeburner 5y ago
    Bullshit. There's 1 owner, the person who owns it. Nations have no claim to govern people who don't want to be governed.
    - humanistbot 5y ago
      Oh, bless your heart. Do you think that if you buy a piece of property in downtown SF or NYC, that you can just declare independence from the US and not be subject to US law?
- chmod775 5y ago
  That's a nice idea up until the point where Belize's police officers show up on your island because you've been breaking Belizian laws/not paying taxes/whatever. I don't think Belize cares that a bunch of rich white kids are playing pretend on one of their islands. They'll do as they were.

walrus01 5y ago

If I had a dollar for every "libertarian" including McAfee who thinks that Belize is some sort of lawless free-for-all zone... Or a dollar for every weird shady "entrepreneur" that thinks relocating their legal residence to Belize or Cyprus will solve all of their tax problems... There is a whole gross venn diagram overlap of libertarians, cryptocurrency bros, penny stock pump and dump, internet porn and casino hosting operations, NFT promoters, "hustle culture", amateur tax avoidance offshoring self proclaimed "experts", people selling naturopathic dick pills online, people selling shares in bare land real estate ventures on economically-uninhabitable sandbar islands, etc.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago
And then there's Mossack Fonseca who did it the "right" way for all the people rich enough to require and afford their services. Where "right" means "properly structured to create the necessary opacity". I find it hard to blame the small guys with big dreams since they're only trying to emulate their tax evading, asset-hiding heroes.
- walrus01 5y ago
  totally agreed. it's not just things like caymanian corporations, plenty goes on within the square mile: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/12/uks-kleptocracy-problem/03-global-money-laundering-capital https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/12/uks-kleptocracy-problem... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/murky-deals-with-corruptistan-fast-becoming-quintessentially-british https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/murky-... https://apnews.com/article/business-london-europe-media-f91432c785e4e06a8fb2c7370d4ca63d https://apnews.com/article/business-london-europe-media-f914... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/opinion/pandora-papers-britain-london.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/opinion/pandora-papers-br...
postingawayonhn 5y ago
McAfee left Belize in 2013 and died in a Spanish prison last year.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  He claims he was $WHACKD, but he's not a credible source.
- walrus01 5y ago
  and prior to that he seemed to be treating belize like some sort of libertarian utopia and promiting it as such (right up until the totally weird murder case/sudden unexplained death of some neighbour of his, when he went on the lam)
throwaway14356 5y ago
sounds like a vibrant economy. maybe even worth donating if they can just pack their bag and leave for the prommised land

Aspos 5y ago

A couple of $100M political donations may win hearts and bi-partisan support of some decision makers in one powerful country. An offer to Belize along the lines of "Hey, we will fund higher education of all your citizens for the next 50 years if you let us secede" may get people listening. "Hey, we will build several top-class hospitals and huge solar farms if you recognize us" may interest neighboring countries. All in all it may take less money than some startups raise.

csomar 5y ago
> A couple of $100M political donations may win hearts and bi-partisan support of some decision makers in one powerful country. An offer to Belize along the lines of "Hey, we will fund higher education of all your citizens for the next 50 years if you let us secede" may get people listening. "Hey, we will build several top-class hospitals and huge solar farms if you recognize us" may interest neighboring countries. You can already "buy" a small/third-world country with that kind of money. No need to go mess up with an island.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  $100M is not that much money. I'm pretty sure that's less than the money already going towards charter cities, which are actually a meaningful possibility and currently being developed e.g. in Honduras Special Development Zones.
  - csomar 5y ago
    I mean buy the politician in that third-world crap-hole and get your way around the laws/rules of that country.
daniel-cussen 5y ago
Taxes basically. The motivation is to avoid paying taxes but every country that's a country has to pay taxes, it's just too obviously necessary. Same thing as pooling money for a party, even investing is pooling money. I can't recommend you be as tax-docile as I am, I don't spend any time recommending it to anybody, but come on. "Taxation" is considered such a bad thing but there's just no way for eg. an orphan to have a dignified existence without it. Donations just don't work, depending on them is too degrading, the orphans end up having to forcibly write thank-you notes if they want the less-bad food (thank-you notes on a good day, there's much worse). That is bullshit. I'd rather pay taxes (in my case way above what is mandatory) and have those orphans write fuck-you notes instead. To whom? To all the people in society who want to benefit from their vulnerability.

collegeburner 5y ago

Ok but why shouldn't they be able to secede? Belize doesn't own it.

ethbr0 5y ago
How's that going for Chagos? Whose people pretty clearly own their own land, have UN decisions in their favor, and still haven't been able to gain control of the islands. Or, to put it another way, why wouldn't Belize just "do nothing" and refuse to recognize their sucession?
323 5y ago
There are two owners to every piece of land: the "civil" owner, and the "sovereign" owner. Belize is still the "sovereign" owner of that island, the ultimate owner that trumps every other one.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Bullshit. There's 1 owner, the person who owns it. Nations have no claim to govern people who don't want to be governed.
  - humanistbot 5y ago
    Oh, bless your heart. Do you think that if you buy a piece of property in downtown SF or NYC, that you can just declare independence from the US and not be subject to US law?
chmod775 5y ago
That's a nice idea up until the point where Belize's police officers show up on your island because you've been breaking Belizian laws/not paying taxes/whatever. I don't think Belize cares that a bunch of rich white kids are playing pretend on one of their islands. They'll do as they were.