4 ms·

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go the

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go there and read the books for free or some small fee. False premise: Most librairies in the United States were funded and built by private philanthropy. See: Carnegie Library >"Sometimes you can even take the books to your home!"– Now imagine libraries didn’t exist and some politician came around proposing we create libraries exactly as they are. What would you expect to happen? I can tell you what I would expect to happen: Nothing at all: What about the authors and publishers? What about the bookstores! People will just steal and/or destroy the books! People don’t even read anymore! I am quite confident they would never get built in any major western democracy today. If it's difficult to build libraries today, political will is not a limiting factor. Rather, technology has slowly but surely rendered the storage of dead trees as obsolete in all but a few circumstances (i.e. archival analysis) Just as we stopped using street cars when buses and cars proved to be more maneuverable and efficient, one shouldn't advocate a reinvention of the 19th century library simply because it delivered a unique benefit once upon a time.

runamok 5y ago
Feels like you are missing the point a bit. The author's point could be about libraries, National Parks, infrastructure like bridges, etc. Many things seem locked in place because of only short term thinking and an unwillingness for short term pain to accomplish long term greater good. Also Carnegie built the libraries under the provision that local governments would sponsor them going forward. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library Furthermore today libraries have started to adapt by loaning digitally. I was going to argue street cars were victims of GM but apparently you are mostly right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_con... and https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/c87l40/i_have_read_that_the_demise_of_streetcars_in_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/c87l40/i_hav...
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  If we find libraries today, with best effort they’ll be built in 4x longer than initially planned and 10x the original budget. After it launches, it would be overrun by inefficiencies to the point of extreme dysfunction. See DMV.
  - rootsudo 5y ago
    Also, Censorship.
YATA0 5y ago
>Just as we stopped using street cars when buses and cars proved to be more maneuverable and efficient Ehh... Cars are something like an order of magnitude less efficient than street cars. Street cars are definitely more efficient than buses, unless the buses are also electrified.
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
> Rather, technology has slowly but surely rendered the storage of dead trees as obsolete in all but a few circumstances. It is my understanding that libraries serve as much more than storage places, but as community hubs. For example for many people the library is the primary place to use computers and access the internet.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
cloudsec9 5y ago
> Just as we stopped using street cars when buses and cars proved to be more maneuverable and efficient I think we "stopped" using street cars because cars became more affordable and made less expensive housing around the edge of cities (suburbs) possible. I've lived in a city which never got rid of streetcars, and has a good transit system; and many cities are bringing back such systems. > because it delivered a unique benefit once upon a time Do modern libraries not deliver benefits still? Or are you arguing that the benefit of lending paper books is in the past? I think that most libraries are adapting to their users, and have taken on new (digital) pieces in their collections -- but I do think there are still a great need for ordinary paper books for a lot of users.
michaelbrave 5y ago
Libraries are book focused but that is hardly all they do. They are much closer to community centers nowadays, what they provide is closer to; an internet cafe, movie rental store, concert and movie venue, local meeting rooms, 3D printers and a lot I'm sure I've not thought about. they do too much to be innovated away, perhaps the book part could be but they do digital borrowing too so it's unlikely. Libraries only go away if we lose sight of how much they impact our community and are no longer willing to pay for them as a society.
musicale 5y ago
> What about the authors and publishers? What about the bookstores! People will just steal and/or destroy the books! People don’t even read anymore! I am quite confident they would never get built in any major western democracy today. Unfortunately modern (digital) libraries cannot currently be built in a way that would deliver on many of the greatest inherent benefits of digital technology (unlimited readers, free delivery to anyone in the world via the internet, unlimited sharing and copying, automatic translation into readers' preferred languages, no limits on number of books taken out or reading time, etc.) without running afoul of copyright law.

runamok 5y ago

Feels like you are missing the point a bit. The author's point could be about libraries, National Parks, infrastructure like bridges, etc. Many things seem locked in place because of only short term thinking and an unwillingness for short term pain to accomplish long term greater good. Also Carnegie built the libraries under the provision that local governments would sponsor them going forward. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library Furthermore today libraries have started to adapt by loaning digitally. I was going to argue street cars were victims of GM but apparently you are mostly right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_con... and https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/c87l40/i_have_read_that_the_demise_of_streetcars_in_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/c87l40/i_hav...

systemvoltage 5y ago
If we find libraries today, with best effort they’ll be built in 4x longer than initially planned and 10x the original budget. After it launches, it would be overrun by inefficiencies to the point of extreme dysfunction. See DMV.
- rootsudo 5y ago
  Also, Censorship.

YATA0 5y ago

>Just as we stopped using street cars when buses and cars proved to be more maneuverable and efficient Ehh... Cars are something like an order of magnitude less efficient than street cars. Street cars are definitely more efficient than buses, unless the buses are also electrified.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago

> Rather, technology has slowly but surely rendered the storage of dead trees as obsolete in all but a few circumstances. It is my understanding that libraries serve as much more than storage places, but as community hubs. For example for many people the library is the primary place to use computers and access the internet.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

cloudsec9 5y ago

> Just as we stopped using street cars when buses and cars proved to be more maneuverable and efficient I think we "stopped" using street cars because cars became more affordable and made less expensive housing around the edge of cities (suburbs) possible. I've lived in a city which never got rid of streetcars, and has a good transit system; and many cities are bringing back such systems. > because it delivered a unique benefit once upon a time Do modern libraries not deliver benefits still? Or are you arguing that the benefit of lending paper books is in the past? I think that most libraries are adapting to their users, and have taken on new (digital) pieces in their collections -- but I do think there are still a great need for ordinary paper books for a lot of users.

michaelbrave 5y ago

Libraries are book focused but that is hardly all they do. They are much closer to community centers nowadays, what they provide is closer to; an internet cafe, movie rental store, concert and movie venue, local meeting rooms, 3D printers and a lot I'm sure I've not thought about. they do too much to be innovated away, perhaps the book part could be but they do digital borrowing too so it's unlikely. Libraries only go away if we lose sight of how much they impact our community and are no longer willing to pay for them as a society.

musicale 5y ago

> What about the authors and publishers? What about the bookstores! People will just steal and/or destroy the books! People don’t even read anymore! I am quite confident they would never get built in any major western democracy today. Unfortunately modern (digital) libraries cannot currently be built in a way that would deliver on many of the greatest inherent benefits of digital technology (unlimited readers, free delivery to anyone in the world via the internet, unlimited sharing and copying, automatic translation into readers' preferred languages, no limits on number of books taken out or reading time, etc.) without running afoul of copyright law.