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If we're going to criticize other countries for human rights abuses, we should get our house in order.

by klyrs 5y ago

bratwurst3000 5y ago
Ehmmm yes there is criticism of the death penalt in the us .... So what has this to do with Saudi arabia??? And maybe the people critizing the death penalty in saudi arabia are NOT the same people who engage in keeping the death penalty in the us???
bratwurst3000 5y ago
Imagine someone beating you to death and the only reactions of your souroundings would be „ hey someone else is also doing this“ thats no point and no help at all
- jonfw 5y ago
  The goal of this post isn't to distribute actionable advice to those directly affected by the event. The odds that they're reading a US tech forum are slim. Most of us here are looking to better understand what's going on in the world when we read articles like this, and the additional context OP shared is helpful to do so
  - bratwurst3000 5y ago
    May I ask how it did help you to better understand the situation? I cant imagine people going „ I cant grasp whats going on in saudi arabia …. HOLD ON the usa is also killing people … now I understand „
    - jonfw 5y ago
      When I first saw that 81 number, I thought to myself "Wow, I can't imagine what it must be like to live in such a repressive regime". When I see comments comparing this to capital punishment and the war on terror from the US, it made me realize that I do actually live in a country that does similar things sometimes
      - bratwurst3000 5y ago
        Ok that I do understand. Still a bit confused. I thought it was common knowledge that you are living in blood thirsty country thats killing people without remorse :)
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Imagine complaining about your neighbor beating his kids when you also beat your kids.
jonathankoren 5y ago
Whataboutism is simply an excuse for maintaining the status quo. Since there is not, nor will there ever be, a perfect country everyone should bite their tongue, and tacitly support the worst behaviors. It’s a trash take, put out by people that would rather center on their own preconceptions rather than actually minimizing harms in the world.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Saudi Arabia will never be perfect either, if that's a valid excuse for executing people.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"Whataboutism is simply an excuse for maintaining the status quo" Nope. It is a request for appropriate punishment for all perpetrators. And if one say fuck you cause I got the biggest dick it is an encouragement.
oconnor663 5y ago
In any comparison of two countries (or people) like this, there are two conflicting issues to keep in mind at the same time: 1) As you point out, no one is perfect, and any honest look at ourselves or the groups we're a part of will show us things we feel ashamed of. 2) Because of that, "whataboutism" is a very effective derailing tactic that anyone can use to dismiss almost any criticism. Given that "no one should ever criticize anyone for anything" isn't what any of us wants, we need some norms and limits around whataboutism to keep it productive. I'm not sure what those should be though, and at the end of the day probably some amount of trust and good faith is required.

If we're going to criticize other countries for human rights abuses, we should get our house in order.

by klyrs 5y ago

If we're going to criticize other countries for human rights abuses, we should get our house in order.

Ehmmm yes there is criticism of the death penalt in the us .... So what has this to do with Saudi arabia??? And maybe the people critizing the death penalty in saudi arabia are NOT the same people who engage in keeping the death penalty in the us???

bratwurst3000 5y ago

Imagine someone beating you to death and the only reactions of your souroundings would be „ hey someone else is also doing this“ thats no point and no help at all

jonfw 5y ago
The goal of this post isn't to distribute actionable advice to those directly affected by the event. The odds that they're reading a US tech forum are slim. Most of us here are looking to better understand what's going on in the world when we read articles like this, and the additional context OP shared is helpful to do so
- bratwurst3000 5y ago
  May I ask how it did help you to better understand the situation? I cant imagine people going „ I cant grasp whats going on in saudi arabia …. HOLD ON the usa is also killing people … now I understand „
  - jonfw 5y ago
    When I first saw that 81 number, I thought to myself "Wow, I can't imagine what it must be like to live in such a repressive regime". When I see comments comparing this to capital punishment and the war on terror from the US, it made me realize that I do actually live in a country that does similar things sometimes
    - bratwurst3000 5y ago
      Ok that I do understand. Still a bit confused. I thought it was common knowledge that you are living in blood thirsty country thats killing people without remorse :)
pessimizer 5y ago
Imagine complaining about your neighbor beating his kids when you also beat your kids.

jonathankoren 5y ago

Whataboutism is simply an excuse for maintaining the status quo. Since there is not, nor will there ever be, a perfect country everyone should bite their tongue, and tacitly support the worst behaviors. It’s a trash take, put out by people that would rather center on their own preconceptions rather than actually minimizing harms in the world.

pessimizer 5y ago
Saudi Arabia will never be perfect either, if that's a valid excuse for executing people.
FpUser 5y ago
>"Whataboutism is simply an excuse for maintaining the status quo" Nope. It is a request for appropriate punishment for all perpetrators. And if one say fuck you cause I got the biggest dick it is an encouragement.

oconnor663 5y ago

In any comparison of two countries (or people) like this, there are two conflicting issues to keep in mind at the same time: 1) As you point out, no one is perfect, and any honest look at ourselves or the groups we're a part of will show us things we feel ashamed of. 2) Because of that, "whataboutism" is a very effective derailing tactic that anyone can use to dismiss almost any criticism. Given that "no one should ever criticize anyone for anything" isn't what any of us wants, we need some norms and limits around whataboutism to keep it productive. I'm not sure what those should be though, and at the end of the day probably some amount of trust and good faith is required.