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I am absolutely delighted that the world at least seems to slowly be approaching a point where invasions will not be tolerated. I am an American and I hope tha

I am absolutely delighted that the world at least seems to slowly be approaching a point where invasions will not be tolerated. I am an American and I hope that if we ever aim to invade a country again that the world will shut us down even harder than we have Russia. Stop exploding children, if your government aims to explode children, eliminate your government. Quit pretending to be concerned about the telescope.

deepsun 5y ago
I am from autocratic country Belarus, and over years I actually came up with, maybe unpopular, opinion that it is good to forcefully impose democracy on other countries. Please do it on my native country. Because after some point, autocratic government goes against people's will, and can even resemble occupation of its own nation. Like literally 3% of the population repress the other 97%. All means of overturning the government and are violently suppressed at their roots.
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  Has forcefully imposing democracy ever worked anywhere? I can't think of single example that turned out okay.
  - dkyc 5y ago
    Germany? I’m very grateful for that operation.
  - digisign 5y ago
    Germany and Japan after WWII, can't think of any others since however.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Germany and Japan had democracies before WWII as well
  - deepsun 5y ago
    South Korea I think also was autocratic at some point, but with the help of USA became much better. There's still a ton of problems, corruption and nepotism, but it's still thousands times better than dictatorship.
  - deepsun 5y ago
    At least we'd have a chance of making it work. With status quo it's just becoming worse and worse due to brain drain (all active conscious people find a way to leave the country).
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"Please do it on my native country." And what would you say if your family gets blown to bits in the process? They already "saved" for example Iraq with hundreds of thousands dead, unknown amount of maimed / starved / displaced / otherwise ruined and with not much different state of affairs for the average folk in the end. You think that barely surviving farmer gives a shit whether they allowed to scream "our president is a dick" on central square?
  - laurent92 5y ago
    Almost everyone would choose freedom over anything else, even if it costs their death. Ukrainians do.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Almost everyone would choose freedom over anything else, even if it costs their death. The history of tyrannical governments suggests that not “almost everyone” would choose that. Franklin's famous quote wouldn't be noteworthy if trading essential liberty for even temporary safety wasn't the common choice of most people through most of history.
    - dmosley 5y ago
      *History has entered the chat I am officially asking for source material to back your "almost everyone" assertion.
    - throttledagain2 5y ago
    - cute_boi 5y ago
      This is a false statement. People value quality life and happy life. If your statement was true, there would be no autocracy. Ukrainians do because they got support from the EU, as well as the US. If they stopped supporting, you know .... And, it is good that the EU and US are supporting Ukrainians. And, I hope the EU will support other countries, that are victims of the US.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  The problem is they can't invade your government, which is an idea, they can only invade your neighborhood, a place. Look what is happening to Ukraine or what happened in Iraq, that is what war is like there's nothing democratic about it.
  - deepsun 5y ago
    Well, Ukrainians actually fight for their democracy, and are pretty strong on that, ready to die for it.
    - Ambix 5y ago
      There's a big difference between democracy and political chaos. I went through all 90s in Russia - believe me, there were so many freedom and democracy around, that no one in modern America could ever imagine :) Despite all of that, all things around were so bad, that people turned to Putin's stability with great relief.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  The problem with this is democracy is hard. The history of it succeeding amidst a people who didn’t fight for it is poor.
  - deepsun 5y ago
    Agree. The saddest stories are the people who did still fight for it despite 98% indiffirent nation. It's easy to fight for something when everyone you know does too. But it's much much harder to fight multiple battles at the same time: at work, at home with you family who wants some security, etc.
dmosley 5y ago
I can't agree enough about invasions being bad. You acknowledge the issue with the US so I'll abstain from Pot-Kettle analogies. Although, I would ask that your awareness of current conflicts the US is engaged in actually become part of your radar. If what you claim you want to happen you truly want to happen, you would acknowledge that those negative repercussions should be happening right now because we have never stopped violently interfering in other countries and their affairs. We're literally dropping bombs as I type this. So check your false pearl-clutching and feigned concessions. I'm not 'pretending' to be concerned about the telescope. I am absolutely concerned about the progress of things that work to unite us instead of dividing us. Based on your previous comment you should be as well. Thanks for just avoiding the issue I raised and attacking me though. Functional discourse at it finest here on HackerNews.

deepsun 5y ago

I am from autocratic country Belarus, and over years I actually came up with, maybe unpopular, opinion that it is good to forcefully impose democracy on other countries. Please do it on my native country. Because after some point, autocratic government goes against people's will, and can even resemble occupation of its own nation. Like literally 3% of the population repress the other 97%. All means of overturning the government and are violently suppressed at their roots.

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
Has forcefully imposing democracy ever worked anywhere? I can't think of single example that turned out okay.
- dkyc 5y ago
  Germany? I’m very grateful for that operation.
- digisign 5y ago
  Germany and Japan after WWII, can't think of any others since however.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Germany and Japan had democracies before WWII as well
- deepsun 5y ago
  South Korea I think also was autocratic at some point, but with the help of USA became much better. There's still a ton of problems, corruption and nepotism, but it's still thousands times better than dictatorship.
- deepsun 5y ago
  At least we'd have a chance of making it work. With status quo it's just becoming worse and worse due to brain drain (all active conscious people find a way to leave the country).
FpUser 5y ago
>"Please do it on my native country." And what would you say if your family gets blown to bits in the process? They already "saved" for example Iraq with hundreds of thousands dead, unknown amount of maimed / starved / displaced / otherwise ruined and with not much different state of affairs for the average folk in the end. You think that barely surviving farmer gives a shit whether they allowed to scream "our president is a dick" on central square?
- laurent92 5y ago
  Almost everyone would choose freedom over anything else, even if it costs their death. Ukrainians do.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Almost everyone would choose freedom over anything else, even if it costs their death. The history of tyrannical governments suggests that not “almost everyone” would choose that. Franklin's famous quote wouldn't be noteworthy if trading essential liberty for even temporary safety wasn't the common choice of most people through most of history.
  - dmosley 5y ago
    *History has entered the chat I am officially asking for source material to back your "almost everyone" assertion.
  - throttledagain2 5y ago
  - cute_boi 5y ago
    This is a false statement. People value quality life and happy life. If your statement was true, there would be no autocracy. Ukrainians do because they got support from the EU, as well as the US. If they stopped supporting, you know .... And, it is good that the EU and US are supporting Ukrainians. And, I hope the EU will support other countries, that are victims of the US.
whatshisface 5y ago
The problem is they can't invade your government, which is an idea, they can only invade your neighborhood, a place. Look what is happening to Ukraine or what happened in Iraq, that is what war is like there's nothing democratic about it.
- deepsun 5y ago
  Well, Ukrainians actually fight for their democracy, and are pretty strong on that, ready to die for it.
  - Ambix 5y ago
    There's a big difference between democracy and political chaos. I went through all 90s in Russia - believe me, there were so many freedom and democracy around, that no one in modern America could ever imagine :) Despite all of that, all things around were so bad, that people turned to Putin's stability with great relief.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
The problem with this is democracy is hard. The history of it succeeding amidst a people who didn’t fight for it is poor.
- deepsun 5y ago
  Agree. The saddest stories are the people who did still fight for it despite 98% indiffirent nation. It's easy to fight for something when everyone you know does too. But it's much much harder to fight multiple battles at the same time: at work, at home with you family who wants some security, etc.

dmosley 5y ago

I can't agree enough about invasions being bad. You acknowledge the issue with the US so I'll abstain from Pot-Kettle analogies. Although, I would ask that your awareness of current conflicts the US is engaged in actually become part of your radar. If what you claim you want to happen you truly want to happen, you would acknowledge that those negative repercussions should be happening right now because we have never stopped violently interfering in other countries and their affairs. We're literally dropping bombs as I type this. So check your false pearl-clutching and feigned concessions. I'm not 'pretending' to be concerned about the telescope. I am absolutely concerned about the progress of things that work to unite us instead of dividing us. Based on your previous comment you should be as well. Thanks for just avoiding the issue I raised and attacking me though. Functional discourse at it finest here on HackerNews.