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How do we know that this is not another Afghanistan/Chechen-1 for Russia? They lost both of those, and I don't think those got off to the same troubled start (f

How do we know that this is not another Afghanistan/Chechen-1 for Russia? They lost both of those, and I don't think those got off to the same troubled start (for Russia) as this one did. Think flight from the country, brain drain, economic meltdown, loss of 3 generals in one fortnight, Ukraine being flooded with weapons, equipment loss, major logistical failures, the loss of the information war... An outright defeat is now a possibility. > unipolar world What does that mean in the context of Fukuyama's thesis?

rayiner 5y ago
The difference is that afghans and Chechnyans won’t surrender even if you turn their country into rubble around their feet. They’re accustomed to a brutally hard existence. I’m not sure Ukrainians are in the same situation.
- bambax 5y ago
  I'm not sure either, but so far they have proven to be incredibly resilient.
- cute_boi 5y ago
  I agree. Many people press guerilla warfare which I don't think is applicable in Ukraine. Afghanistan and Ukraine are different countries. I don't think people in Ukraine can tolerate the life of Afghani people. They are not used to luxury and were indoctrinated with radical religious views. They were following terrorism, although I don't think they were terrorists as portrayed by the media. Ukraine people are modern and they understand the value of life. And, even if they resist Russian and start to act like a terrorist, the EU won't support them in long run. There is no place in the EU for terrorism or radical beliefs.
pphysch 5y ago
Afghanistan was about Soviet/American imperial conquest & controlling Asia. Chechnya was about suppressing separatism / national security. Ukraine is also about national security, but a rung up from Chechnya because Moscow is concerned about a hostile military empire putting hypersonics there. Cuban Missile Crisis but even more extreme (imagine if Cuban extremists were shelling and killing Cuban Americans in Florida and ethnically cleansing the minor islands of "Americanism").
- ogogmad 5y ago
  1. Why is Russia afraid of a defensive alliance with no compulsion to join (unlike the hilariously named Warsaw Pact)? The most enthusiastic members of the alliance are the closest to them... I wonder why... 2. NATO doesn't have hypersonic missiles. Russia has hypersonic missiles. 3. Why does Russia get to bolster their security by ravaging their democratic neighbours? Seems like zero-sum type behaviour. Maybe Russia should try making friends and stop using violence and threats. [edit] Here I thought the invasion happened because Ukraine was a neo-Nazi state, in spite of their president being Jewish and having defeated his rival who was the incumbent in the last election. I also thought that it was because Ukraine isn't a real country, and Russia should have the same borders as it had in 1916 (which would include Poland and Lithuania). Hmmm. Seems the war was intended to wipe Ukraine (a democratic country) off the map and restore the Russian empire. You seem like an apologist for imperialism. And people are dying for no reason because of Putin and his war of conquest.
  - pphysch 5y ago
    [flagged]
  - ailef 5y ago
    To define NATO as a defensive alliance you need to stretch the definition of the word defensive so much that probably Putin invasion of Ukraine could be considered defensive as well. > 2. NATO doesn't have hypersonic missiles. Russia has hypersonic missiles. I don't know much about this one but wouldn't any NATO member having hypersonic missiles mean that NATO has them?
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      Who did NATO attack and when?
      - ailef 5y ago
        You can find this information with a 2 minute Google search.
thriftwy 5y ago
The USSR spent less time (wall clock) in Afghanistan than the USA and left Afghanistan on way, way better terms. It managed to build a secular Afghanistan state which was able to survive past the fall of USSR and will only collapse around 1993. The USA has left with people falling off its airplanes and the state has collapsed in two weeks I believe.

rayiner 5y ago

The difference is that afghans and Chechnyans won’t surrender even if you turn their country into rubble around their feet. They’re accustomed to a brutally hard existence. I’m not sure Ukrainians are in the same situation.

bambax 5y ago
I'm not sure either, but so far they have proven to be incredibly resilient.
cute_boi 5y ago
I agree. Many people press guerilla warfare which I don't think is applicable in Ukraine. Afghanistan and Ukraine are different countries. I don't think people in Ukraine can tolerate the life of Afghani people. They are not used to luxury and were indoctrinated with radical religious views. They were following terrorism, although I don't think they were terrorists as portrayed by the media. Ukraine people are modern and they understand the value of life. And, even if they resist Russian and start to act like a terrorist, the EU won't support them in long run. There is no place in the EU for terrorism or radical beliefs.

pphysch 5y ago

Afghanistan was about Soviet/American imperial conquest & controlling Asia. Chechnya was about suppressing separatism / national security. Ukraine is also about national security, but a rung up from Chechnya because Moscow is concerned about a hostile military empire putting hypersonics there. Cuban Missile Crisis but even more extreme (imagine if Cuban extremists were shelling and killing Cuban Americans in Florida and ethnically cleansing the minor islands of "Americanism").

ogogmad 5y ago
1. Why is Russia afraid of a defensive alliance with no compulsion to join (unlike the hilariously named Warsaw Pact)? The most enthusiastic members of the alliance are the closest to them... I wonder why... 2. NATO doesn't have hypersonic missiles. Russia has hypersonic missiles. 3. Why does Russia get to bolster their security by ravaging their democratic neighbours? Seems like zero-sum type behaviour. Maybe Russia should try making friends and stop using violence and threats. [edit] Here I thought the invasion happened because Ukraine was a neo-Nazi state, in spite of their president being Jewish and having defeated his rival who was the incumbent in the last election. I also thought that it was because Ukraine isn't a real country, and Russia should have the same borders as it had in 1916 (which would include Poland and Lithuania). Hmmm. Seems the war was intended to wipe Ukraine (a democratic country) off the map and restore the Russian empire. You seem like an apologist for imperialism. And people are dying for no reason because of Putin and his war of conquest.
- pphysch 5y ago
  [flagged]
- ailef 5y ago
  To define NATO as a defensive alliance you need to stretch the definition of the word defensive so much that probably Putin invasion of Ukraine could be considered defensive as well. > 2. NATO doesn't have hypersonic missiles. Russia has hypersonic missiles. I don't know much about this one but wouldn't any NATO member having hypersonic missiles mean that NATO has them?
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Who did NATO attack and when?
    - ailef 5y ago
      You can find this information with a 2 minute Google search.

thriftwy 5y ago

The USSR spent less time (wall clock) in Afghanistan than the USA and left Afghanistan on way, way better terms. It managed to build a secular Afghanistan state which was able to survive past the fall of USSR and will only collapse around 1993. The USA has left with people falling off its airplanes and the state has collapsed in two weeks I believe.