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You said: > Are you referring to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion with their Nazi ideology, or the Russians who have invaded a sovereign country? > The choice may

You said: > Are you referring to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion with their Nazi ideology, or the Russians who have invaded a sovereign country? > The choice may seem simple to you, but it's not as easy as you might think for many to side with avowed Nazi's either.. What you're implying is that there is some moral justification to invading Ukraine if the goal is to eliminate the Nazi Azov battalion. That is false -- there is no justification at all. The reason is that if you applied this standard equally to all countries (i.e. "if x% of population is Nazi, then invade"), then you could invade 90%+(just to be conservative) of the countries in the world: how many people are there in the Azov battalion? 2k? 3k? 5k? Ukraine has a population of 44 million. How many Nazis are there in the United States? How many Nazis are there in Germany? How many Nazis are there in Mongolia? And how many Nazis are there in Russia itself? If you're not planning to "de-naizify" all of them, then "de-nazification" is but a meaningless excuse to your invasion, aka -- propaganda.

yucky 5y ago
The comment was in response to the statement that "the choice was clear" on who should be supported. Except it's not. There is a lot of blame to go around, it's been abundantly clear for 25 years that NATO expansion to Ukraine & Georgia would result in war[1]. So when we have continually pushed for that, we have been pushing for war. Also, we can't ignore the US-backed Ukrainian coup/revolution in 2014[2] which then resulted in the invasion of Crimea. Nor can we ignore that after the democratically elected government in Ukraine was removed via that coup/revolution, that the US handpicked the post-coup leadership in Ukraine and helped rewrite the Constitution to put NATO membership back on the table, knowing this would antagonize Russia.[3] Should we not consider all of these things? Russia is clearly being the aggressor now that they have decided to invade Ukraine, but that didn't happen in a vacuum. Our actions in the West are what has led to this, either intentionally or though incompetence. Ignoring everything that happened before February 24th is ignorant. [1] https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/opposition-nato-expansion https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/o... [2] https://apnews.com/article/970e8e54b3df46eab593e9e11beb056d https://apnews.com/article/970e8e54b3df46eab593e9e11beb056d [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-a...
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > be can't ignore the US-backed Ukrainian coup/revolution in 2014which then resulted in the invasion of Crimea You have been called out on your "CIA Coup" propaganda before, regarding this event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity Saying that it "resulted in the invasion of Crimea" is like saying "she made me hit her". it's repulsive.
  - yucky 5y ago
    I have been called out? I provided links to Reuters and AP, it doesn't get more legit than that. Maybe you don't realize the CIA has a long and illustrious career of fomenting revolutions, but their fingerprints are all over it.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > I have been called out? Yes, recently here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30658026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30658026 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627544 However I do not expect this to stop you from continuing to peddle the same misleading talking point to each new passer-by who didn't think to check just how one-note your comment history is.
      - yucky 5y ago
        You linked to people who disagree, or have a different take on the situation. I'm not sure what you think that means. I have simply pointed out that the revolution/coup of 2014 that installed the current Ukrainian government was A)Unconstitutional and B)Supported by the US, which is obviously the main adversary to Russia. I also pointed out that the idea of pushing Ukraine and/or Georgia towards NATO has been known for the last 25 years to be a guaranteed precursor to war with Russia. These facts aren't in dispute, so there is nothing to call me out on. Now, you can have the opinion that the coup was a good thing for the Ukrainian people and that it's ok to install a pro-US government in Ukraine or that they should be in NATO regardless of how that concerns Russia. Those are opinions and can be debated. But you can't dismiss facts. And the above are facts.

yucky 5y ago

The comment was in response to the statement that "the choice was clear" on who should be supported. Except it's not. There is a lot of blame to go around, it's been abundantly clear for 25 years that NATO expansion to Ukraine & Georgia would result in war[1]. So when we have continually pushed for that, we have been pushing for war. Also, we can't ignore the US-backed Ukrainian coup/revolution in 2014[2] which then resulted in the invasion of Crimea. Nor can we ignore that after the democratically elected government in Ukraine was removed via that coup/revolution, that the US handpicked the post-coup leadership in Ukraine and helped rewrite the Constitution to put NATO membership back on the table, knowing this would antagonize Russia.[3] Should we not consider all of these things? Russia is clearly being the aggressor now that they have decided to invade Ukraine, but that didn't happen in a vacuum. Our actions in the West are what has led to this, either intentionally or though incompetence. Ignoring everything that happened before February 24th is ignorant. [1] https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/opposition-nato-expansion https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/o... [2] https://apnews.com/article/970e8e54b3df46eab593e9e11beb056d https://apnews.com/article/970e8e54b3df46eab593e9e11beb056d [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-a...

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> be can't ignore the US-backed Ukrainian coup/revolution in 2014which then resulted in the invasion of Crimea You have been called out on your "CIA Coup" propaganda before, regarding this event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity Saying that it "resulted in the invasion of Crimea" is like saying "she made me hit her". it's repulsive.
- yucky 5y ago
  I have been called out? I provided links to Reuters and AP, it doesn't get more legit than that. Maybe you don't realize the CIA has a long and illustrious career of fomenting revolutions, but their fingerprints are all over it.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > I have been called out? Yes, recently here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30658026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30658026 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627544 However I do not expect this to stop you from continuing to peddle the same misleading talking point to each new passer-by who didn't think to check just how one-note your comment history is.
    - yucky 5y ago
      You linked to people who disagree, or have a different take on the situation. I'm not sure what you think that means. I have simply pointed out that the revolution/coup of 2014 that installed the current Ukrainian government was A)Unconstitutional and B)Supported by the US, which is obviously the main adversary to Russia. I also pointed out that the idea of pushing Ukraine and/or Georgia towards NATO has been known for the last 25 years to be a guaranteed precursor to war with Russia. These facts aren't in dispute, so there is nothing to call me out on. Now, you can have the opinion that the coup was a good thing for the Ukrainian people and that it's ok to install a pro-US government in Ukraine or that they should be in NATO regardless of how that concerns Russia. Those are opinions and can be debated. But you can't dismiss facts. And the above are facts.