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I've found that games that make you "risk things and choices have consequences" have me lose substantial progress upon death, resulting in emotional pain much l

I've found that games that make you "risk things and choices have consequences" have me lose substantial progress upon death, resulting in emotional pain much like having lost multiple pages of writing and not being able to recover it. Additionally, repeatedly playing the same section upon death often makes me feel the game doesn't respect my time. IMO growth and accomplishment is not built around losing progress if you fail (much like learning to program doesn't involve throwing away your code whenever you hit a bug).

nemo44x 5y ago
Not everything will be for everyone. There’s plenty of games that don’t respect the players ability to think and learn too. A lot of people love these games. I think it comes down to fairness though. If I’m walking around holding lots of progress in terms of items or something else I could lose then I’m making a conscious choice to see what’s in that strange cave that’s glowing… Poker isn’t fun if you aren’t risking something, right?
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  But the risk is artificial. It mostly boils down to “do I want to spend 5-10min running back to a save point and making my way back here?” It’s just a chore, not a real risk.
  - karpierz 5y ago
    The challenge posed by a game is artificial. It could just give you all of the best items at the start and make you invincible. The question that Souls/Elden Ring ask you is: "Can you do this consistently?" Which is different than most games which ask: "Can you do this once?" The former is a question of mastery, whereas the latter is a question of a combination of mastery, perseverance, and luck.
    - Forgeties79 5y ago
      I see your point. I guess what it boils down to for me is how aware I am of the meta-side of the choice. If I’m actively thinking “ugh I don’t want to burn 10min making a round trip” that’s not fun. But I guess for some it doesn’t register or, if it does, they don’t mind.
      - karpierz 5y ago
        Totally! If you're not immersed in the mastery loop then it's definitely going to feel like a chore. For me, the runes at stake make the experience more intense. But if you don't feel the same way, I think it's perfectly fair to say it's just not your kind of game.
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    You’re risking your time I guess. But in the case of this game you’re risking being able to recover your runes.

nemo44x 5y ago

Not everything will be for everyone. There’s plenty of games that don’t respect the players ability to think and learn too. A lot of people love these games. I think it comes down to fairness though. If I’m walking around holding lots of progress in terms of items or something else I could lose then I’m making a conscious choice to see what’s in that strange cave that’s glowing… Poker isn’t fun if you aren’t risking something, right?

Forgeties79 5y ago
But the risk is artificial. It mostly boils down to “do I want to spend 5-10min running back to a save point and making my way back here?” It’s just a chore, not a real risk.
- karpierz 5y ago
  The challenge posed by a game is artificial. It could just give you all of the best items at the start and make you invincible. The question that Souls/Elden Ring ask you is: "Can you do this consistently?" Which is different than most games which ask: "Can you do this once?" The former is a question of mastery, whereas the latter is a question of a combination of mastery, perseverance, and luck.
  - Forgeties79 5y ago
    I see your point. I guess what it boils down to for me is how aware I am of the meta-side of the choice. If I’m actively thinking “ugh I don’t want to burn 10min making a round trip” that’s not fun. But I guess for some it doesn’t register or, if it does, they don’t mind.
    - karpierz 5y ago
      Totally! If you're not immersed in the mastery loop then it's definitely going to feel like a chore. For me, the runes at stake make the experience more intense. But if you don't feel the same way, I think it's perfectly fair to say it's just not your kind of game.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  You’re risking your time I guess. But in the case of this game you’re risking being able to recover your runes.