4 ms·

Interesting how we point at Russia for not having liberty of information. But at this war we are throwing all the first punches This is way past ridiculous, no

Interesting how we point at Russia for not having liberty of information. But at this war we are throwing all the first punches This is way past ridiculous, not to mention social media allowing violence Looks like a "all in" from a desperate EU/UK/USA having been handed a losing hand

fwdpropaganda 5y ago
estaseuropano 5y ago
Nonsense "first punches". Russia has been censoring media within Russia for many years, and has gone increasingly harsh. The RT ban in Europe came after Russia banned several western and local critical media and disaccredited journalists. In addition RT and Sputnik have been spreading literal fake news for years to rail up opposition to national governments both with a pro Russia slant but often simply to attack national policy and cause rifts with minority groups or migrants (e.g. [1]) [1] https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german-woman-kidnapping-rape-russia https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german...
- guilhas 5y ago
  CNN and BBC are also debunked or misreport frequently and Russia didn't rush to ban them If RT lied it would have gone to due process It was a clear political decision to ban TV channel, online channels, and now search engine result. Coordinated between EU/UK/US leaders https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debunked-russian-tank-crush-civilian-car-kyiv https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debu... Almost all "independent" or not media sources reported the tank being Russian and most still do
  - estaseuropano 5y ago
    This is whataboutism. BBC might be biased but it is not straight propaganda and lies as RT. Honestly there is no point in discussing this if you cannot see the difference between a state sponsored channel that pumps out literal lies and fake footage, invents conspiracy theories, and tries to sow hate against e.g. jews and migrants vs one that has a conservative and pro-British bent but is free to criticise the government and often does so. BBC is boring and conservative and I would rarely waste my time on it, but it is an entirely different category of media.
    - orra 5y ago
      > to sow hate against e.g. jews and migrants I mean, the BBC is very happy to turn refugees drowning in the English sea into entertainment. And is currently waging a war on trans people. Sure, the BBC is less bad than RT, but not pumping out doctored footage or blatant antisemitism is a very, very low bar.
      - djohnston 5y ago
        Waging a war on trans people? What?
      - tweetle_beetle 5y ago
        I'm really struggling to find the war being waged on trans people here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=trans https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=trans There are numerous programmes on the lives of trans people covering a variety of topics (relationships, culture, health), some news stories reporting facts (mainly people and organisations getting 'cancelled' for being anti-trans) and articles based on public comments from well known people regretting decisions. I assume you are referring to the controversy around a single article by a single journalist [1]. A journalist who previously wrote a sympathetic history of trans people in the modelling industry... for the BBC[2]. Out of curiosity, I tried to find any other evidence. All other descriptions of this anti-trans agenda ultimately just reference this single article e.g. [3]. One 'article' becomes 'articles' and then slips into being an 'agenda'[4]. I found one other reference - an article about an internal meeting which some attendees complained about, but that wasn't even public facing and was only called because of that single article [5]. (There were also some vague references to two individual news stories, which were considered by some to not be balanced - there are complaints like this about news coverage from either side of any argument every single week on the programme Feedback.) If the BBC is trying to promote an anti-trans agenda across their massive output involving tens of thousands of people, they are doing a spectacularly bad job of it. I get fed up of people bashing the BBC over individual incidents - it just feeds into the right wing narrative that it needs to be de-funded [6]. Be careful what you wish for, privately owned media tends not to be great for marginalised groups... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59074096 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59074096 [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49578690 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49578690 [3] http://www.ilga-europe.org/sites/default/files/2022/united_kingdom.pdf http://www.ilga-europe.org/sites/default/files/2022/united_k... [4] https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/drag-race-uks-bimini-calls-out-bbc-for-pushing-an-anti-trans-agenda/ https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/drag-race-uks-bimini-calls-o... [5] https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/11/11/bbc-trans-lgbt-staff-stonewall/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/11/11/bbc-trans-lgbt-staff-s... [6] https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mps-and-trans-campaigners-accuse-the-bbc-of-being-institutionally-transphobic/ https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mps-and-trans-campaigner...
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    What “due process” exists to rectify a lie on the internet? I’m not aware of any. A teeny tiny percentage of the audience who consumes a lie might happen upon the correction at a later point in time but by then it’s too late. The first lie wins. Overwhelmingly. And we (as individuals and as a society) have almost no recourse whatsoever.
djohnston 5y ago
I believe Putin invading his sovereign neighbor was the first punch. After that it's no hold bar, all Russian corporate entities should be harassed and dragged into irrelevance with targeted sanctions and bans. Let Putin have his vassal state bent over for Chinese resource extraction and turn them into a hermit kingdom.

fwdpropaganda 5y ago

estaseuropano 5y ago

Nonsense "first punches". Russia has been censoring media within Russia for many years, and has gone increasingly harsh. The RT ban in Europe came after Russia banned several western and local critical media and disaccredited journalists. In addition RT and Sputnik have been spreading literal fake news for years to rail up opposition to national governments both with a pro Russia slant but often simply to attack national policy and cause rifts with minority groups or migrants (e.g. [1]) [1] https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german-woman-kidnapping-rape-russia https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german...

guilhas 5y ago
CNN and BBC are also debunked or misreport frequently and Russia didn't rush to ban them If RT lied it would have gone to due process It was a clear political decision to ban TV channel, online channels, and now search engine result. Coordinated between EU/UK/US leaders https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debunked-russian-tank-crush-civilian-car-kyiv https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debu... Almost all "independent" or not media sources reported the tank being Russian and most still do
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  This is whataboutism. BBC might be biased but it is not straight propaganda and lies as RT. Honestly there is no point in discussing this if you cannot see the difference between a state sponsored channel that pumps out literal lies and fake footage, invents conspiracy theories, and tries to sow hate against e.g. jews and migrants vs one that has a conservative and pro-British bent but is free to criticise the government and often does so. BBC is boring and conservative and I would rarely waste my time on it, but it is an entirely different category of media.
  - orra 5y ago
    > to sow hate against e.g. jews and migrants I mean, the BBC is very happy to turn refugees drowning in the English sea into entertainment. And is currently waging a war on trans people. Sure, the BBC is less bad than RT, but not pumping out doctored footage or blatant antisemitism is a very, very low bar.
    - djohnston 5y ago
      Waging a war on trans people? What?
    - tweetle_beetle 5y ago
      I'm really struggling to find the war being waged on trans people here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=trans https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=trans There are numerous programmes on the lives of trans people covering a variety of topics (relationships, culture, health), some news stories reporting facts (mainly people and organisations getting 'cancelled' for being anti-trans) and articles based on public comments from well known people regretting decisions. I assume you are referring to the controversy around a single article by a single journalist [1]. A journalist who previously wrote a sympathetic history of trans people in the modelling industry... for the BBC[2]. Out of curiosity, I tried to find any other evidence. All other descriptions of this anti-trans agenda ultimately just reference this single article e.g. [3]. One 'article' becomes 'articles' and then slips into being an 'agenda'[4]. I found one other reference - an article about an internal meeting which some attendees complained about, but that wasn't even public facing and was only called because of that single article [5]. (There were also some vague references to two individual news stories, which were considered by some to not be balanced - there are complaints like this about news coverage from either side of any argument every single week on the programme Feedback.) If the BBC is trying to promote an anti-trans agenda across their massive output involving tens of thousands of people, they are doing a spectacularly bad job of it. I get fed up of people bashing the BBC over individual incidents - it just feeds into the right wing narrative that it needs to be de-funded [6]. Be careful what you wish for, privately owned media tends not to be great for marginalised groups... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59074096 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59074096 [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49578690 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49578690 [3] http://www.ilga-europe.org/sites/default/files/2022/united_kingdom.pdf http://www.ilga-europe.org/sites/default/files/2022/united_k... [4] https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/drag-race-uks-bimini-calls-out-bbc-for-pushing-an-anti-trans-agenda/ https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/drag-race-uks-bimini-calls-o... [5] https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/11/11/bbc-trans-lgbt-staff-stonewall/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/11/11/bbc-trans-lgbt-staff-s... [6] https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mps-and-trans-campaigners-accuse-the-bbc-of-being-institutionally-transphobic/ https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mps-and-trans-campaigner...
- elliekelly 5y ago
  What “due process” exists to rectify a lie on the internet? I’m not aware of any. A teeny tiny percentage of the audience who consumes a lie might happen upon the correction at a later point in time but by then it’s too late. The first lie wins. Overwhelmingly. And we (as individuals and as a society) have almost no recourse whatsoever.

djohnston 5y ago

I believe Putin invading his sovereign neighbor was the first punch. After that it's no hold bar, all Russian corporate entities should be harassed and dragged into irrelevance with targeted sanctions and bans. Let Putin have his vassal state bent over for Chinese resource extraction and turn them into a hermit kingdom.